Questionable body boundaries?

[Anon01010]

Hi this is my first time posting here, please be kind to me.
I’m looking for some advice regarding a situation that arose this evening between my 2 year old son and my partner (his father). The three of us were cuddling when my son pulled back and said ‘Dada you touch my boobies and I’ll touch yours’, a phrase I’ve never heard him say before and was shocked by. For context my son is still breastfed and has a total fascination with breasts and nipples, for months now he has been grabbing at both myself and my partner and whilst I always steer him away and explain that we don’t grab each other there and why, my partner has been a lot more lax about this and I feel he hasn’t helped with nipping this behaviour in the bud. Anyway, as my son said this I expected my partner to explain the usual stuff around body boundaries but instead he rubbed my son’s nipple (through his t-shirt). I wasn’t happy and immediately stopped him and explained why it was problematic, I then asked him to explain about body boundaries again to our son and left the room to start dinner leaving the door open. I then hear the door close and go back to ask why the door needs to be closed and my partner says he needs to have a private conversation with our son. I then got upset because I don’t see why my partner should be having private conversations with our son that he doesn’t want me to hear/be aware of. I am constantly trying to instil the message with my son that we don’t have secrets in our home and I feel this goes against that message. I then hear my partner explain not to touch Dada there, but he didn’t apologise or explain that he also should not have touched my son’s nipple.

Later the conversation picked back up, I asked my partner if that was the first time he’d heard my son say those things and he was oddly vague with his answer, then admitted my son had also said it to him in the morning. I said I’m confused where he has picked up this idea of ‘you touch me I touch you’ as he has never played with other kids alone and doesn’t go to nursery. I asked him why his first reaction was to touch my son’s nipple. He told me it’s his way of trying to teach him to stop - ‘you don’t like it when I do this to you, so don’t do it to me’ kind of mentality. I explained there’s zero logic in that as you’re trying to teach him not to do something but then you’re doing it to him, the message is confusing. He had no explanation for needing a private chat that he didn’t want me to hear.

This isn’t the first time my partner and I have butt heads over body boundaries so I’m looking to get some sense of what others do and think is appropriate. I feel my partner is too relaxed on the body boundary front and sending confusing messages but perhaps I am too far the other way?

To add to this, this is also causing some strain in my relationship with my son as he thinks I’m always angry at Dada, obviously having no understanding of the reasons why. So I feel like the villain and the horrible one when all I’m trying to do is protect our son. How do I handle these situations better so our son isn’t impacted?

[Embarrassednamechangeadoddle]

That is quite disturbing, why on earth would he touch your son’s nipple instead of saying no? That along with the closing the door to talk is very concerning. I would be very cautious about their relationship?

what other boundary issues have there been?

[stayclosetoyourself]

It sounds a bit strange - what do you think? It can be awkward to deal with things like this with toddlers sometimes but can't explain the private conversation part. Maybe he was telling him not to say it again??
How old is your DH just for context

[Anon01010]

@Embarrassednamechangeadoddle That was my reaction too. His explanation is that he thinks it will deter my son from continuing to do it to others if he realises he doesn’t like it being done to him. I do not agree with this way of teaching children about the world and explained to him, if our child hit him, would he hit him back to teach him not to do that? His answer was obviously no. Everything I’ve gathered from my partner’s upbringing so far is that there was a distinct lack of boundaries both physically and emotionally.

Just to be clear I don’t know if it was my son or partner who closed the door, it’s likely it was my son as he has a habit of closing doors wherever he goes. I suspect my partner felt defensive (that I don’t trust him) when I went back to open it and that may be way he blurted out something about a private conversation. I’m not trying to make excuses here but am trying to rationalise a bit as I worry I jump to conclusions too easily.

[Anon01010]

The other boundary issues have been more to do with my partners family, they would expect to hold my son when he was a young baby even if he was screaming my partner wouldn’t say no, they would kiss him during Covid even though we asked them not to on 3 occasions as our son had a low immune system, they did it anyway and my partner said nothing, my partner would force him to do hugs goodbye he didn’t want to do, pose for photos he didn’t want to have taken. I’m sure the above is ‘normal’ to many people, however I personally feel very strongly about respecting children as people and respecting their bodies and personal space.

There was also one occasion when my son had a sore anus after having diarrhea and my partner asked ‘do you want Mama to kiss it better’ which grossed me out and was in really bad taste imo. Although others have told me they think that was just a dad joke so again I don’t know if it’s just my perception of things…

[Anon01010]

@stayclosetoyourself I honestly don’t know what to think, I want to give my partner the benefit of the doubt and not be suspicious of him but I can’t ignore the fact it made me really uncomfortable. I do think you’re right though I think he finds these conversations incredibly awkward. I don’t know if the private conversation was knee jerk response to feeling defensive and like I don’t trust him to be in a room with our son with the door closed?

He’s in his late 30’s, I don’t think he’s spent a lot of time with kids prior to us having one and he’s done absolutely no research or reading on parenting

[Floribundaflummery]

I think you’re right to be alert. It sounds odd behaviour.

[Kastri]

It does not sound normal to me.The you touch me thing sounds like a 'game'they have done before.
Dont feel guilty for being alert to possibilities.

[caringcarer]

@Kastri

It does not sound normal to me.The you touch me thing sounds like a 'game'they have done before.
Dont feel guilty for being alert to possibilities.

I'd be very worried by this. If the door was shut at that point how you know the touching was of nipples? I don't think I'd leave my DH alone with DS if I'd heard the you touch me and I'll touch you thing either.

[Anon01010]

@caringcarer we were all together when this took place, we had just had a family cuddle when my son came out with it and my partner touched him in front of me. I immediately had a conversation with my partner about this in front of my son, asked him to re-explain the body boundaries concepts then left the room to cook dinner (I needed to calm down).

[Embarrassednamechangeadoddle]

I think you need to remember your immediate emotional response. There is a reason you felt so strongly and that’s because what he did was very odd and disturbing.

I’m not sure what you do from here op, but if I were you I’d be very alert about their time together. I’d also make time to talk to your son alone about boudaries and about private body parts etc….a time away from his dad.

[QuokkaInSpace]

OP, I second Embarrassednamechange. You felt this way for a reason.

You can call the NSPCC Helpline to discuss this with professionals.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/reporting-abuse/what-if-suspect-abuse/

I would also talk to your DS when your DH is out. Ask him about 'you touch me I touch you'.

Kids can think up odd things sometimes, but it's better to be safe than sorry. Especially when, reading your replies, it seems you've been quite worried about your DH's behavior, someone I assume you love and trust very much.

It's likely this is just a fluke and your DH feels embarrassed and defensive like you said. It's good that you're proactive rather than ignoring something worrying though. Wishing you the best x