Assisted Suicide

[pinguins]

I was in hospital for a serious infection last weekend and while I was lying on a trolley at the front of the ambulance admission queue, I could hear all the handovers. I was there for about three hours and they were doing my tests etc while I was waiting to be moved somewhere else. About 80% of the people were over 85 and some of them were called "social admissions" where they were being taken to A and E by an ambulance because there was no other option to keep the person safe.

I was listening to them shouting out, most of them were very confused and not in a good state. And I just thought, I don't want to get like that.

I've never thought I'd want assisted suicide before. I always thought until now that I'd want to just take whatever life threw at me and see how it all turned out, and savour every drop until the last minute. But I'm starting to think that's not likely with the unnatural lifespans we face and the way our brains seem to degenerate.

I don't want to sell the home I've worked so hard for, to pay for care to prolong a life I don't want to live and won't even be aware I'm living. What's the point of that?

Now, additional complication, I have bipolar disorder so I wouldn't want assisted suicide to be too easy. It would need to be regulated very VERY carefully. Not just handed out. But not impossible to get either. I don't think it's fair that you can't get assisted suicide if you have dementia and people with a history of depression shouldn't be ruled out as candidates on that basis if there's no current clinical depression.

What are your thoughts? How could we make assisted suicide workable? Or is it an impossible task in a country where the health system has a vested interest in there being fewer elderly/mentally ill people? Should we even try?

[user1471453601]

I don't know how we make it workable, but some countries seem to have, some apparently better than others. But I think we really should try.

My take on it is that, at 72 and in bad health, I don't want to get much worse. I'm already just about house bound (like living in a big prison, but with good food and wine) I don't think I want to face the next thing that goes wrong with my body, as it almost certainly will.

My daughter, who I love and who loves me have very similar views on assisted dying. But the thought that she would be put in prison for helping me out of this cage my life is becoming, is too much for me.

I have no doubt she'd do it if I asked, but as the law now stands I wouldn't ever ask her.

The solution, in the current legal situation, is that I will choose to take my own life before it become unable, that may well be while I'm still getting some pleasure from life.

[AlwaysJumping]

I would be signing up and going abroad for assisted suicide with a life terminating illness, no questions. The sad thing is I would have to do it early whilst I could still travel myself, if they allowed it in the U.K. I could stay longer with friends and family and less stressful all round.

[Whatsthepoint1234]

In my home country assisted dying has been legal since the early 2000s and now even children over 12 can apply for euthanasia. There have been multiple cases where people with mental disturbances have been allowed euthanasia which makes me very uneasy. Fairly recently a girl with disorders like psychosis who made multiple attempts was granted euthanasia due to her mental health. As someone with BPD this makes me uncomfortable. Although when the bill in my country was first passed it was cautious and only allowed terminally ill competent adults to die, regulations have been loosened and we’ve fallen down a slippery slope. I don’t agree with euthanasia as I can see when it is legalised people slowly push for more and more, people can get rid of their relatives easily.

[NegativNancy]

I recently went to visit my DP's gran in a dementia card home. It was fucking terrible. I dont want that for the end of my life - I will genuinely pay to have my life ended on my terms with a scrap of dignity.

[pinguins]

Yeah if things stay as they are now, I would plan to pay to end my life in another country when it came to it, but I'm under the impression that there are a lot of rules on this, and that a dementia diagnosis means you lack capacity to make the decision (even if it's been caught early) which I think is unfair.

If it did get legalised in the UK, some sort of advance directive should be written into the legislation so people can make a decision at a point when they're well, and get that decision respected when they're diagnosed with something that affects the brain.

[Thelondonone]

I’m in favour, my mum’s quality of life is shit and I have a 1 in 7 chance of going also losing my faculties at a fairly young age. I’m in favour of assisted dying for my mum and myself (she has no money so no need to bump her off). I’m also going to spend all my cash if I do decide to do the genetic test.

[MontyDonsBlueScarf]

In principle I'm in favour, but there have been several threads on here lately where people have been saying 'how can I get my elderly parents to do X when they don't want to but it's obviously better for them '. The comments have largely been focused on get PoA, arrange a fait accompli etc. I'm shocked at the number of people who don't seem able to respect their parents' decisions, and horrified at the prospect of assisted dying becoming legal while such attitudes are still widespread.

[Meredusoleil]

@AlwaysJumping

I would be signing up and going abroad for assisted suicide with a life terminating illness, no questions. The sad thing is I would have to do it early whilst I could still travel myself, if they allowed it in the U.K. I could stay longer with friends and family and less stressful all round.

This is how I feel too. Can I ask how old you are currently please?

[SiennaSienna]

I’m in Canada and just a few days ago my friend’s 100 year old granddad chose that option. He’d had a long, active and fulfilled life right up until 2 weeks ago where his eyesight snd hearing significantly deteriorated and he was diagnosed with stomach cancer. He insisted on this path, and was determined to go peacefully with his family by his side. (Multiple independent doctors had to attest that he was of sound mind and that this was an independent decision. ). My friend was relieved that he was able to go do peacefully on his own terms.

[MothershipG]

I buried my mum today, she had motor neurone disease.

If I had similar I really would want the option to choose my own time without having to go down the DIY route.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I used to be in favour of it until I saw what was happening in Canada...

"A number of reports suggesting that some Canadians have opted for assisted death, at least in part because they could not afford adequate housing, have also prompted fears it could be used as a solution for societal challenges - that someone may seek out Maid because of poverty, lack of housing, or extreme loneliness."

<snip>

"In the days before his death, he was agitated, confused, and refused to wear the cochlear implant that helped him hear, his sister-in-law Trish Nichols told a Senate committee last year. On his application for Maid, the stated reason was "hearing loss"."

<snip>

"Then last autumn, authorities launched an investigation after at least four veterans were prompted to consider Maid by a Veterans Affairs case worker, who now no longer works for the department. In one instance, veteran and paralympian Christine Gauthier said she was offered the option by the employee after she asked for a wheelchair ramp to be installed in her home."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64004329

[WhereTheSuburbsMeetUttoxeter]

I am fully in favour of. However it is such a tricky tightrope.

Who do we trust to govern it? As far I'm concerned, we can't trust our current government and never could.

We can't trust private companies like Capita to make correct health care decisions.

I fear like I may be like the first poster. Suicide would be my option, but where do you draw the line between being capable of and still some beauty in life, to being incapable?

We should all be able to choose our own exit from this life. A couple of times I've haphazardly tried. A cry for help from services I wasn't receiving maybe.

Nobody wants to die, until they REALLY do. Luckily my Nan went within weeks. I would have helped her.

MND runs in my family. It's like having the hangman looking over your shoulder. Constantly.

The Canada thing looks well fucked up though.

[WhereTheSuburbsMeetUttoxeter]

And if anybody was in Northampton last November to see Harry Hill, it was me that ruined his first Nan joke....

"It was only when we got settled and Nan had the straw, that she said - Disneyland! D'oh! Oh well, we're here now Nan"

🤣

[WhereTheSuburbsMeetUttoxeter]

@WhereTheSuburbsMeetUttoxeter

And if anybody was in Northampton last November to see Harry Hill, it was me that ruined his first Nan joke....

"It was only when we got settled and Nan had the straw, that she said - Disneyland! D'oh! Oh well, we're here now Nan"

🤣

He didn't get to tell it. I shouldn't really go to standard up in the front rows!

I did put my hand up!

This thread took a turn.

You are all my sunshines.

[PostOpOp]

Canada'a situation is truly a bad one. I think it was Pru Leithband her son who did a look at all the countries. She was pro-AS and he was anti. Both were completely shocked by Canada.

In Belgium and The Netherlands it's on a bit of a slippery slope. Although a friend recently sent me a link from The Netherlands where a 20-something woman was complaining because she wanted assisted suicide due to mental health problems..but there was a 2-year waiting list. I'd never thought about there being waiting lists to die!

For older people or those with terminal illnesses, I think the regulations need to be watertight, but different than for those who are younger. Mental health support for people needs far more investment and a much more holistic approach, than at current. Even in The Netherlands, where they have better and faster mental healthcare, it's still got a long way to go.

Any young person who wants assisted suicide due to mental health problems that they've had lots of therapy for is sounding a claxon about the failings of mental health provision. The response shouldn't be to introduce or grant euthanasia, it should be to try and fix the actual problem that makes this person not want to live. The slippery slope of NL, Belgium and where Canada is far ahead on comes ultimately from that: euthanasia becomes seen by some as the solution.

Like I said, for older people it's different although mental health issues can play a role there too.

At the moment, I'm pro the idea of it, but when it comes to ethical practice in the area of killing someone, I cannot think of any system that would be watertight.

[StopGo]

I am literally sat watching my 87 year old DM die of medical neglect. She has an overwhelming infection that is rotting her lower legs.

Her doctor wants her admitting to hospital, three ambulance crews have refused because she has severe dementia.

Waiting for Hospital at Home. Funnily enough two paracetamol doesn't help.

Euthanasia is better than death by neglect.

[BeautyGoesToBenidorm]

I've been in strong favour of assisted dying for as long as I can remember.

Watching my previously independent, fantastically intelligent DF die an awful, prolonged death from the monster that is Huntington's disease, only cemented my belief that people should have the right to die if they so choose.

[AlwaysJumping]

@Meredusoleil

This is how I feel too. Can I ask how old you are currently please?

Does my age matter?

[Shemightbeatriphazard]

If you open it up past the very strict terminal illness criteria - which doesn’t help with ageing/dementia etc - how do you avoid people coming under pressure to choose AS from family, friends or the state?

If you don’t first fix the appalling state of social care and the mess around funding, how do you avoid having people forced into AS on grounds of cost? A bit like if you can’t get an NHS dentist you might well find yourself having an extraction because a Root canal is too expensive- only this is a person’s life.

[LadyGardenersQuestionTime]

Make an advance decision to refuse treatment. They are legally binding (as long as you do them while you have capacity).

Mine says that if I don't have capacity and that is expected to be permanent then I move on to palliative care only. So stop any life-protecting medication (heart meds etc) but stick with pain/symptom relief only. No antibiotics, oral or IV. And no hospital other than for some specific things that won't kill me if they don't get fixed (eg hip fracture). I've added some definitions - eg not able to recognise my husband or children; objectively poor quality of life.

Do not leave it to other people to have to make the tough decisions for you.

https://www.dyingwithdignity.ca/education-resources/advance-care-planning-kit/

[Hbh17]

I think assisted suicide is an essential in a civilised society, and I would vote for any political party who put it in their manifesto. It is the number one policy issue, in my view. It is barbaric that people are currently not able to end their lives at a time of their own choosing.

[MadCatLady27]

I'd definitely be in favour and would want it myself if I was say quadraplegic.

Maybe it could be like a will where provided a person is deemed sound of mind by a doctor they specify conditions they'd want to have AS for - witnessed by a medical professional and solicitor?

It's always stuck in my head what my mum would say when having childhood pets PTS "at least we can do this for animals humans you have to watch suffer"

Does anyone think it will ever be legal?

[pinguins]

@StopGo 💐

[yorkshireshire]

I'm caring for someone with late stage dementia who has a good quality of life and still laughs and has pleasure. I think dementia is more difficult to regulate in terms of assisted dying because different types of dementia present differently and the rate of decline can vary enormously. Patients can life in a happy stable way for a long time and then a hospitalisation will just cause a huge and instant step down in deteroriaton.

I think it should be available if someone is actually end of life and in advance when well and mentally stable that is what they have elected - so with dementia when they can no longer swallow, can't walk, doubly incontinent - ie. in the very end stages.

Unfortunately I've seen too much of this in hospital and some horrific things. One of the worse is where someone is end of life but needs to have a limb amputated. Of course they wont operate, because the person will die during surgery or will die anyway. so you have someone who has a limb that will go black, become gangrenous and poison them. Animals dont get treated like that. This sort of situation - end of life plus a condition that is causing great pain or an exaggeratedly slow death, is when I would support assisted dying.

[MrsDanversGlidesAgain]

Although when the bill in my country was first passed it was cautious and only allowed terminally ill competent adults to die, regulations have been loosened and we’ve fallen down a slippery slope.

This is my fear. It's all very well for people to say 'yes but with adequate safeguards' - but safeguards can be removed. Imagine another pandemic when the health services comes under huge pressure, what do you think would happen to those 'safeguards' then?