"In my day, forgetfulness and confusion was just old age, now everything is labelled as dementia"

[Frazzledmummy123]

This was the statement made by my mum yesterday. My dad is 87 and despite being relatively spritely for his age, has been forgetting places that have been shut for decades is shut, mixing up memories of me as a child with this grandchildren, etc.

My mum is the queen of denial, she can't face things she doesn't want to, then tries unsuccessfully to deflect. She also has narc traits is very vain. If I try to talk to her, I get sarcastic comments and gaslit.

My dad has horrendous mobility (see my previous threads about this) and refused walking aids. Instead, he is often very unsteady on his feet which makes people offer help out in public. My mum claims "people overreact" 🙄

How the hell do you deal with this level of denial and stubborness?

[soupfiend]

Has he got a diagnosis of dementia?

Has he or would he agree to go to the GP?

[MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel]

I don't necessarily disagree with that statement though, those are traits of old age. Of course there can be dementia, but not always.

Whether your dad has it though will need to be determined through checks at the memory clinic.

[TowersOfBooks]

Does your dad need more support than he already has? If he needs support / moving to a care home even, and you feel that your mum won't do this because she doesn't (can't / won't) accept it then one option is to contact adult social services, say that your dad has dementia, and that your mum is refusing to accept this. You can also contact their GP and while they can't discuss anything with you, you can tell them your concerns and they might invite him / her in for a 'check' and see if they can pick up on any concerns.

Ime - I let it continue until my parent was at risk of hurting themselves then contacted adult social services. My parent wouldn't cooperate with assessment so they were sectioned in the end and now, 3 years later, they're in a much much better place, mentally and literally. They haven't significantly declined any further, they're quite content in their care home (we were very lucky) and the 'in denial' parent is ok. Not thriving, because their role had become The Carer and they struggle with a loss of identity.

[betterangels]

Not necessarily wrong. Of course it should be checked though.

[LolaSmiles]

A certain amount of forgetfulness was viewed part of old age, and probably is still part of a natural slowing down. Dementia and Alzheimer's are beyond natural old age forgetfulness.

People live much longer today than when the current generation of 80+ year olds were in middle adulthood. With people dying younger, the sort of long, slow decline some people experience these days is probably something that some older people didn't see very much when they were younger. It might affect how willing some of them are to accept that dementia is something that could affect them and/or their spouse.

[BeyondMyWits]

Mobility issues and unsteadiness in themselves can be a sign of vascular dementia - along with memory issues. Would suggest visiting a GP. There are treatments to help alleviate symptoms and delay onset of the worst ones. Being in denial really doesn't help with some forms of dementia.

[olderbutwiser]

What are you particularly worried about? In my experience, regarding mobility, he will eventually fall and after that will be more interested in mobility aids. Regarding the cognitive impairment, it may or may not progress to dementia. Again, when it starts being a real problem, your parents may choose to do something about it. But in all honesty it’s a moot point if early diagnosis makes any difference at all. If it’s Alzheimer’s there are some medications that may slow down progression a bit if taken in the early stages but the jury is out on how much difference that really makes to individuals with dementia.

They are adults. You haven't managed to change your mum in the whole of your life. I suspect this is just going to play out while you stand by and grit your teeth.

[Frazzledmummy123]

@soupfiend

Has he got a diagnosis of dementia?

Has he or would he agree to go to the GP?

No to both.

He does what my mum tells.him, and both would say no to seeing a gp.

[KalaMush]

Honestly OP, the examples you give could well be normal old age forgetfulness, not dementia.

[Frazzledmummy123]

@MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel

I don't necessarily disagree with that statement though, those are traits of old age. Of course there can be dementia, but not always.

Whether your dad has it though will need to be determined through checks at the memory clinic.

His confusions seem quite extreme. He talks about memories he has of me in the park as his grandson, seems very 'out of it' a lot which is why I suspect dementia and would prefer he be seen.

[Frazzledmummy123]

@TowersOfBooks

Does your dad need more support than he already has? If he needs support / moving to a care home even, and you feel that your mum won't do this because she doesn't (can't / won't) accept it then one option is to contact adult social services, say that your dad has dementia, and that your mum is refusing to accept this. You can also contact their GP and while they can't discuss anything with you, you can tell them your concerns and they might invite him / her in for a 'check' and see if they can pick up on any concerns.

Ime - I let it continue until my parent was at risk of hurting themselves then contacted adult social services. My parent wouldn't cooperate with assessment so they were sectioned in the end and now, 3 years later, they're in a much much better place, mentally and literally. They haven't significantly declined any further, they're quite content in their care home (we were very lucky) and the 'in denial' parent is ok. Not thriving, because their role had become The Carer and they struggle with a loss of identity.

I would say he needs more support, not just cognitively, but in other ways too. They wouldnt take kindly to me approaching their gp, and I heard the gp.has to disclose i've spoken to them which puts me off doing it. It'd cause merry hell.

That sounds so stressful what you had, I glad things are improved now.

[Frazzledmummy123]

@betterangels

Not necessarily wrong. Of course it should be checked though.

If he got checked and it turned out to be old age then fair enough, but it's face nothing is being done and my mum is using this statement to not get him seen.

[Frazzledmummy123]

@LolaSmiles

A certain amount of forgetfulness was viewed part of old age, and probably is still part of a natural slowing down. Dementia and Alzheimer's are beyond natural old age forgetfulness.

People live much longer today than when the current generation of 80+ year olds were in middle adulthood. With people dying younger, the sort of long, slow decline some people experience these days is probably something that some older people didn't see very much when they were younger. It might affect how willing some of them are to accept that dementia is something that could affect them and/or their spouse.

That is all very true, and I never really thought of it that older people neber saw much of it. That's an interesting point.

[Frazzledmummy123]

@BeyondMyWits

Mobility issues and unsteadiness in themselves can be a sign of vascular dementia - along with memory issues. Would suggest visiting a GP. There are treatments to help alleviate symptoms and delay onset of the worst ones. Being in denial really doesn't help with some forms of dementia.

That's what I am worried about. I feel he needs to be checked out so we at least know if it is dementia or not.

[MrSlant]

I have just been through this for years with my own DPs, reverse the genders and it's almost exactly the same although my mum is a bit younger than your dad and was relatively mobile. My father is so far in denial it took my mum nearly having a serious accident in the car (still driving then!) and becoming very unwell and hospitalised which progressed to severe delirium and her Alzheimers really coming into it's own. At that point he had to admit he needed help but it still took quite a while to persuade him to have her memory assessed. Even now he thinks she is getting better and is a lot more well than she is and his word is LAW.

My suggestion is to look after yourself, make sure you are as well as you can be, I have (through the gp) invested heavily in anxiety medication but each to their own and also looking after my diet and exercise because I cannot influence my father and have to grit my teeth and go along with it, so need to be in tip top condition so I don't have a heart attack myself (only half joking).

This is tough op, you just need to be there as much as you can afford (money/healthwise) and try and support the best you can with gentle reminders about memory clinic and hope they come around, at some point denial becomes almost impossible on their part and things will have to change. Sorry you are going through this too.

[Frazzledmummy123]

@olderbutwiser

What are you particularly worried about? In my experience, regarding mobility, he will eventually fall and after that will be more interested in mobility aids. Regarding the cognitive impairment, it may or may not progress to dementia. Again, when it starts being a real problem, your parents may choose to do something about it. But in all honesty it’s a moot point if early diagnosis makes any difference at all. If it’s Alzheimer’s there are some medications that may slow down progression a bit if taken in the early stages but the jury is out on how much difference that really makes to individuals with dementia.

They are adults. You haven't managed to change your mum in the whole of your life. I suspect this is just going to play out while you stand by and grit your teeth.

A lot of things really. Probably mainly the risks that come with living in denial and not addressing issues which could put them in danger (e.g: not using mobility aids, however you are right, it'll probably take a fall to kick off any action).

I take your point about whether diagnosis of dementia if it is there not necessarily being of use. I just feel if we knew what the situation actually is, it might help.

[Velvian]

Your dad may be able to take medication that would help to a small degree. He is very elderly though and I think your mum is right to a certain extent. My dad developed vascular dementia in his early 60s and there is nothing he can take for it, beyond statins to reduce cholesterol.

I think it often takes a crisis before help is sought. My view is very coloured by my own experience, but it sounds like your parents are very fortunate in their health levels at their ages. It sounds like they are doing well.

[Frazzledmummy123]

@KalaMush

Honestly OP, the examples you give could well be normal old age forgetfulness, not dementia.

Do you think so? If it was all forgetfulness I'd put down to old age, however I didn't think mixing up time periods was normal cognitive decline. That's interesting.

[Octavia64]

There can be a lot of things that cause confusion and forgetfulness that are not dementia.

If it's very bad then possibly an infection or a uti (and bear in mind these can last for quite a while).

If he has chronic pain from arthritis or other such things then this will also impact memory and cognitive functioning.

(I'm not saying it definitely is any of these, but I'm 47 and I have these problems and it's not dementia for me!)

[Frazzledmummy123]

@MrSlant

I have just been through this for years with my own DPs, reverse the genders and it's almost exactly the same although my mum is a bit younger than your dad and was relatively mobile. My father is so far in denial it took my mum nearly having a serious accident in the car (still driving then!) and becoming very unwell and hospitalised which progressed to severe delirium and her Alzheimers really coming into it's own. At that point he had to admit he needed help but it still took quite a while to persuade him to have her memory assessed. Even now he thinks she is getting better and is a lot more well than she is and his word is LAW.

My suggestion is to look after yourself, make sure you are as well as you can be, I have (through the gp) invested heavily in anxiety medication but each to their own and also looking after my diet and exercise because I cannot influence my father and have to grit my teeth and go along with it, so need to be in tip top condition so I don't have a heart attack myself (only half joking).

This is tough op, you just need to be there as much as you can afford (money/healthwise) and try and support the best you can with gentle reminders about memory clinic and hope they come around, at some point denial becomes almost impossible on their part and things will have to change. Sorry you are going through this too.

I am sorry you are going through this.
Denial becoming almost impossible is the stage I think it's going to need to reach before anything is seen to. Your dad sounds exactly like my mum, I can totally sympathise as it's so difficult.

[maudelovesharold]

I was once told by a doctor that we would all get ‘dementia’ eventually if we lived long enough. The way he put it was, our individual genetics means it kicks in earlier for some, who have to live with the awful consequences, where others have died before it’s had a chance to get going. I’m sure it’s more complex than that, and he’d simplified it for my benefit, but I think cognitive decline is a certainty for most people as they age, but some people are lucky enough to have a more delayed onset than others. I think sometimes there is too much labelling of people/conditions, which isn’t necessarily helpful.

[Growlybear83]

I agree with previous posters. I don't think there is necessarily reason to think that this is dementia rather than just getting more forgetful. And if it does turn out to be early dementia, there wont really be a benefit in knowing this. Some people with early dementia can take medication which may or may not help to slow down the progress of the disease, but you wont get any support from Social Care until things get very serious, and even then they will probably not care. In the case of my Mum, I spent three or four years worrying whether her forgetfulness was just normal old age or dementia, and then when dementia did develop, it was very obvious that it was a new problem for her.

I'm sorry you're going through a worrying time. It's so difficult when you think someone you love is developing dementia.

[Frazzledmummy123]

@Velvian

Your dad may be able to take medication that would help to a small degree. He is very elderly though and I think your mum is right to a certain extent. My dad developed vascular dementia in his early 60s and there is nothing he can take for it, beyond statins to reduce cholesterol.

I think it often takes a crisis before help is sought. My view is very coloured by my own experience, but it sounds like your parents are very fortunate in their health levels at their ages. It sounds like they are doing well.

You are right, things usually need to hit crisis point before anything is done. And yes, they are fortunate in many ways especially given their ages. It is just worrying when there are things that could be addressed which would make things easier (i'm referring to his mobility there, their refusal of walking aids for him has isolated him a lot).

[MrSlant]

<unmumsnetty hug op> It is so SO difficult. Things will come to a head but it will be hard to watch and frustrating when you finally get there that it had to come to that. Keep chatting on here, I've found just reading this board so helpful even if I don't join in all the time.

My dad has decided to cancel the carers (live in 24/7) for when I am up next because they get on his nerves and I'll be there to help. I am trying to be philosophical about this because I've only just got my blood pressure down to sensible levels and I don't want to spoil it.

[Citrusandginger]

I'm in my fifties and had a "forgetful" uncle as a child, so it absolutely was a thing in the past. One of my great grandad's sayings was once a man twice a boy, referring to senility. It was perhaps more hidden though as [mainly] women managed older relatives at home.

Can you focus on the symptoms with your mum? The key is early support to both of them, it doesn't matter what your mum wants to call it.