Lasting Power of Attorney

[Fantapops]

My grandmother has mild dementia (I'm using this to score her when I see her, currently she's at a 15: https://www.alz.org/careplanning/downloads/dsrs-scale.pdf ). Official diagnosis is Mixed Dementia of Vascular Dementia & Alzheimers.

Her support worker has told her that she must update her will and do a lasting power of attorney ASAP. I was there during this appointment (I normally live hundreds of miles away). After conversations with my grandmother it seems she wants my mother & I to be joint LPA.

I relayed this to my mother who said that she has already almost finished my grandmother's LPA with her as the sole LPA - she just needs witnesses. I am really, really concerned about this. My mother is a recovering addict and abused me as a child. She has made some ridiculous legal & financial decisions of her own and quite frankly, I don't trust her as far as I can throw her. I have told my grandmother this who is worried (and doesn't remember doing the LPA with my mum), and doesn't want this, but is scared to speak up to my mum who can really steamroll ahead and is pretty manipulative.

My gran has also voiced that she wants to move to my town and have me as her main support as she progresses. However she's thinking of staying put with no family support because she's worried she'll come between my mother & I if she decides to say she wants my support.

I literally don't know what to do?? My mum asked my gran for money to buy a house after she sold her own prematurely and made some bad financial decisions. My gran said no. I'm worried of the impact an LPA with my mum only could have on my gran. I have told my mum that my gran has asked for both of us but my mum is pushing back hard and has said she will finish the LPA with my gran in April. I won't be there and literally won't be able to stop it. Do I just have to watch this absolute train wreck take place??

[Chatbot12]

contact the office of the public guardian for advice or seek input from a solicitor who specialises in LPAs and Court of Protection matters, just in case you need to go down that route. but you do need to act immediately in these circumstances

[Fantapops]

@Chatbot12

contact the office of the public guardian for advice or seek input from a solicitor who specialises in LPAs and Court of Protection matters, just in case you need to go down that route. but you do need to act immediately in these circumstances

Thank you, I will.

[Fleamaker]

Your grandmother would need to sign the application for POA, along with her nominated person(s) who she wants...along with a witness. Has she done this with your mum?
Your mum can't just do POA without your grandmother's signature.

If your mum has done this, and your grandmother has signed without fully understanding, she can cancel it and say she doesn't want your mum.

[Fleamaker]

Gov.uk has good advice re. POA's

[Fantapops]

@Fleamaker

Your grandmother would need to sign the application for POA, along with her nominated person(s) who she wants...along with a witness. Has she done this with your mum?
Your mum can't just do POA without your grandmother's signature.

If your mum has done this, and your grandmother has signed without fully understanding, she can cancel it and say she doesn't want your mum.

She hasn't signed anything yet no - my mum has been hounding for me to do so and to get her witnesses to sign. I leave tomorrow morning and thankfully no one has signed anything during my visit. Gran is adamant that she does not want a sole LPA especially not my mother.

My mum next visits in April though and I am worried that she will pressure her then.

[Mum5net]

Record your DGran on your phone preferably with another person in room saying all this before you go.

[Fleamaker]

That's good that your Gran hasn't signed anything. You can do power of attorney yourself, but with your mum potentially disputing it in the future, I'd go through a solicitor to have it all confirmed your Gran had the mental capacity when she signs.

I'd be making an appointment asap. I know it's more costly with a solicitor but it would be worth it.

Your mum would have full access to her finances, house etc..it needs to be someone totally trustworthy with you your Gran's best interests at heart!

[TraitorsGate]

The papers need a certificate provider to sign too, it's not just gran, mum and you. I would contact her gp or community nurse, the support worker can help you, ask for a capacity assessment and have it on record gran doesn't want mum. Also as others say, contact the opg and her solicitor. If gran kicks capacity then it's too late for poa. Record all conversations. Financially, if gran is happy and has capacity she could appoint you as third party account holder and they can put an alert on her account, issue new cards.

[TraitorsGate]

It might be safer for gran to appoint a solicitor as her poa and executor if she does want to update her will, does it need updating?

[TraitorsGate]

If gran does appoint a solicitor she may want to consider stori g important documents with them or buy a lockable box and drawer at home

[Fantapops]

@TraitorsGate

It might be safer for gran to appoint a solicitor as her poa and executor if she does want to update her will, does it need updating?

Will needs updated yes, she last did it 20 years ago when I was 5 and my sister 3, and it has her son as joint executor who now lives in Australia and hasn't contacted her in six months. She wants me & my mother as joint executors instead.

[Fantapops]

I have pleaded with my gran to involve a solicitor with LPA and will but she's really disinterested and I don't feel I can force this on her.

[Worried74]

If an LPOA is put in place be careful about how you as attorneys can act. You would need to act jointly not jointly and severally as this would still allow your mother to make decisions for your grandmother without your input. Acting jointly has its own issues if one the attorneys were to die or lose capacity. If you go online then government website is very helpful.

[TammyJones]

We started POA (relative died).
But it was going to coast £500 ish.
So with solicitors fees.....
How come your nan wants your mum to be joint POA if she's so manipulative?

[Fantapops]

@TammyJones

We started POA (relative died).
But it was going to coast £500 ish.
So with solicitors fees.....
How come your nan wants your mum to be joint POA if she's so manipulative?

Because she's still my gran's daughter, and she loves her, and she has 'family should never fall out' attitude. She thinks that if she doesn't let my mum be LPA then my mum would fall out with her. She's probably right about this to be honest.

[Chrisaldridge]

If you wanted a line to go in with could you suggest that it would be easier with just one POA listed and that should be you? I have a (useless) second POA listed and I would rather they weren’t! It increases the admin to prepare the docs and register them, quite apart from any issues of me having to deal with them and account to them going forward.

[TammyJones]

@Fantapops

Because she's still my gran's daughter, and she loves her, and she has 'family should never fall out' attitude. She thinks that if she doesn't let my mum be LPA then my mum would fall out with her. She's probably right about this to be honest.


Sadly family do fall out.
But if mi mum had abused me as a child that would be me.
In your shoes I would get my Nan to move near yourself and sort the POA for you.
Anything else will give your mum totally control ...and neither you nor your nan need that.

[PermanentTemporary]

I wonder if she might be better off not giving power of attorney at all?

She could give you third party access to her bank account and could make a will? She doesn't have to do anything else.

[LinemanForTheCount]

How difficult for you OP. I would
ring the Office of the Public Guardian advice line. I am sure they can offer help and advice in this, especially when undue pressure or bullying is happening.

However if your grandmother is of sound mind and still decides to give your mother power of attorney, regardless, because she doesn’t want to fall out, then that is her (unwise!) choice; it’s not your problem or responsibility - what are you meant to do in such circumstances? They are not in any way of your making.

[Mum5net]

@PermanentTemporary

I wonder if she might be better off not giving power of attorney at all?

She could give you third party access to her bank account and could make a will? She doesn't have to do anything else.

This is genius.
OP, I would do this.
Absolutely, you are covered with this solution. While for many POA is the best option, it truly might not be the best for you. This route should not impact your DGM but ring fences what she wants…
@PermanentTemporary has delivered the best advice

[bettybadger]

You might still want to get a Health & Welfare LPOA if your nan has dementia. That only kicks in if she lacks capacity regarding decisions about her care.

[Fantapops]

@TammyJones

@Fantapops

Because she's still my gran's daughter, and she loves her, and she has 'family should never fall out' attitude. She thinks that if she doesn't let my mum be LPA then my mum would fall out with her. She's probably right about this to be honest.


Sadly family do fall out.
But if mi mum had abused me as a child that would be me.
In your shoes I would get my Nan to move near yourself and sort the POA for you.
Anything else will give your mum totally control ...and neither you nor your nan need that.

I know :(

As awful as it sounds, I'm only in contact with my mother because my gran is alive. I don't plan on continuing the relationship afterwards. I was no-contact with my mum for years and it deeply upset my gran. She's still in contact with her ex-husband who abused her for 30 years because he's 'family'. I wish I could make her understand that family is not always safe but she won't ever get it.

I'm trying to get her moved near me and then from there be her sole LPA because it'll be me who is her main carer, so I feel it's more justified and she'd understand why - but for now she's still ages away from everyone.

[Fantapops]

@Chrisaldridge

If you wanted a line to go in with could you suggest that it would be easier with just one POA listed and that should be you? I have a (useless) second POA listed and I would rather they weren’t! It increases the admin to prepare the docs and register them, quite apart from any issues of me having to deal with them and account to them going forward.

She won't go for that because it'd upset my mum. I think this is what she actually wants tbh because she has told me that she knows how manipulative my mum is.

[Fantapops]

@PermanentTemporary

I wonder if she might be better off not giving power of attorney at all?

She could give you third party access to her bank account and could make a will? She doesn't have to do anything else.

What happens then when her dementia progresses and she has no capacity? Who would be making the decisions on her care etc?

[Fantapops]

@LinemanForTheCount

How difficult for you OP. I would
ring the Office of the Public Guardian advice line. I am sure they can offer help and advice in this, especially when undue pressure or bullying is happening.

However if your grandmother is of sound mind and still decides to give your mother power of attorney, regardless, because she doesn’t want to fall out, then that is her (unwise!) choice; it’s not your problem or responsibility - what are you meant to do in such circumstances? They are not in any way of your making.

Yeah. Ultimately I want to respect her choice, even if it's not the choice I'd make. I'm not really sure she's even being pressured, she just wants to do 'the right thing', and she thinks it is even though she knows my mum is manipulative. I think deep down she doesn't want to have my mum LPA but knows it'll cause a fuss so will do it anyway.