Stoney broke elderly relative and complicated living costs

[Springdeclutter]

A member of DHs family has equity release debt that amounts to about half the value of her house. Her family persuaded her to move out and rent an assisted living place nearer to her daughter. She only managed ok there for a few months and is now in a care home.

The house still isn’t sold, she’s still in a rent agreement with the assisted living and has care home fees too. Her daughter is going through family members asking for sums of money to subsidise her.

We are both very sympathetic and also well aware of the cost of care. Nevertheless, DH shocked to be asked for a 4 figure sum to help with this month’s expenses. On the one hand he wants to help, but is this answer and should they get some financial advice? The relative asking on the elderly relative’s behalf is just asking for a gift of money.

DH says he will give the money but not if asked again. Not out of meanness but because it doesn’t feel like things are being handled very well and asking for handouts isn’t the answer to financially broke relative’s woes.

[whiteroseredrose]

It sounds like the original house needs to have a price drop to encourage the sale, and the council needs to be approached regarding the care home fees.

The sheltered housing is an issue as they are a nightmare to sell. I'm not sure what the answer is to that.

MIL is currently in a very nice care home with dementia care too. It is £80,000 a year so the family home had to be sold quickly. If she uses up all of the money she will need to move into a council approved home because DH and I couldn't foot the bill. We will be working for donkey's years as it is before we can retire. Harsh but necessary.

[MoreRainbowsPlease]

How much longer is the contract for the assisted living flat? If that is rented then it shouldn't be an expense for too much longer. The house could be sold at auction for a quick sale. I don't think you should be giving money to help out unless you really can afford it as it isn't really your problem and whoever is sorting this person's affairs out really needs to sort them out long term, and if other people are giving money there might not be the incentive to do it quickly.

[Springdeclutter]

They have a buyer for the house having dropped the price about 3 times, but it’s taking a while to go through.

I was wondering what people thought of them short term financing with handouts from family members. Is this really a valid way to handle things?

[PermanentTemporary]

I don't think dh should give money, or certainly not yet. This is an opportunity to say that the daughter needs to engage with social services, or more simply to refuse to engage! Funnily enough if money is involved the manager of the care home might be the most effective advocate to get stuff sorted out.

[ThePure]

Doesn't she need a social care financial and needs assessment from the local authority?

Sounds like she has care needs and if she has no money the LA will fund those. Even if she has a property waiting to be sold the LA may enter into a property disregard arrangement where they pay for the care now and are paid back when the house sells.

She may also not be getting all the benefits she could eg attendance allowance

I would refuse to keep bankrolling this as family as it is clearly not sustainable. Tell them to call the LA instead

[PermanentTemporary]

She has money - just not yet. Let the care home look for it.

[PermanentTemporary]

What @ThePure said

[Springdeclutter]

@MoreRainbowsPlease

How much longer is the contract for the assisted living flat? If that is rented then it shouldn't be an expense for too much longer. The house could be sold at auction for a quick sale. I don't think you should be giving money to help out unless you really can afford it as it isn't really your problem and whoever is sorting this person's affairs out really needs to sort them out long term, and if other people are giving money there might not be the incentive to do it quickly.

Essentially, this is how I feel. I think DH making a one off gift is ok but I hope he won’t feel guilted into more than that.

Re the flat: I think that contract can’t have much longer to run and it’s back on the renting/selling market because they were discussing whether we might like a chair or painting. DH and I felt this reflected even less grip on finances on some levels and he suggested his relative sell these items.

Re the house: it’s a builder type person buying. I think it will go ahead and he knows it’s a bargain because of the market not being strong where the house is

[Sleepmoreplease]

This situation doesn't seem sustainable. The money is going to run out. Very quickly if the assets from the home aren't released, and eventually even if/when they are. In either case the council will then step in and this may involve your relative having to move nursing home. It's time to get the right authorities involved not ask for handouts from family members.

Throwing more money from other people into the mix is either:

• Literally throwing good money away (better for the money to run out sooner than be subsidised by you and then run out anyway)

• Effectively keeping a bit more value from the house sale, you won't be paid back. Then when your elderly relative passes this will be inherited. So you would be funding the benefactor of her estate +/- the taxman?

I don't see how your elderly relative benefits directly from either option. They don't exactly need a good credit score.

I am no financial expert and could be wrong in some way but in this situation I wouldn't hand over money (although not least because I absolutely couldn't afford to!!!)

[candycane222]

Rather than give money, could your DH give time to help the daughter work through the various options, sales and claims etc to put everything on a stable footing?

[Sleepmoreplease]

I had another thought. If your husband wants to help financially and can afford to do he would better off spending his gift on an advisor (would it be an accountant?) specialising in finances related to elderly care etc. Getting good financial advice and help with the admin of sorting our your elderly relative's finances would surely be a wonderful gift to her daughter and not simply throwing good money after bad.

[Springdeclutter]

Sleepmoreplease I agree with you. It’s a completely unsustainable model. My own father died recently. He had healthy finances for someone in their 90s with 30 years of retirement already passed. He was going into nursing care at a care home but passed away in hospital before this happened. The care home needed evidence of finances for 2 years before accepting him. I believe DHs relative is in a care home that would be suitable financially once the money runs out. That’s runs out as opposed to being tied up in property and inaccessible in the short term.

[PermanentTemporary]

Many nursing homes won't take people until the money is proven to be available, precisely to avoid these situations. If this one did, they must be used to dealing with the social services about it.

[Springdeclutter]

candycane222, sleepmoreplease suggestions of advice help is definitely a way to go in my opinion. DH says he will gift the money but also name of his accountant and offer to consult on their behalf.

The elderly relative is lovely but lived very extravagantly. For many years she gifted her children and grandchildren 3 figure sums for birthdays and Christmas. I think it was a while before they realised it was funded by equity release. How sweet she is a person is probably why these and other relatives care so much now. But, it is no way to finance care.

[Springdeclutter]

@PermanentTemporary

Many nursing homes won't take people until the money is proven to be available, precisely to avoid these situations. If this one did, they must be used to dealing with the social services about it.

We were saying this to each other this morning. My personal experience of my Dad and also my Mum. With my Mum, it was different because she very ill and care was palliative for most of her nursing home care. But, like you say, the nursing home my mum was in led the way re availability of funded care options. My father could have afforded to fund her care but the home advised and organised funded care.

[TempleOfBloom]

The close relatives should tell the council there is no cash: the council can pay the care home frees and put a charge on the house so that they get paid when it is sold.

No need for begging around the family.

Obviously most families would want to help where really needed but your DH is right, it is bring badly handled.

[Tontostitis]

I'm in a similar ish position with my parents who are both adamant that it was their choice to take so much equity release so early and that they and only they had the benefit of that equity release and they neither expect or will accept handouts.

So far they are managing at home but it's not sustainable and sadly this will mean a council run care home if it comes to it.

My husbands mother is in an awful financial pickle as well and she seemingly wants to move in with us despite having given her daughters many sums of money in the thousands.

We are both struggling emotionally with what we can afford, what we feel obliged and what we actually want to do. Plus a lot of grandchild care....

Tough me thinks you make choices and should live with the consequences, soft me thinks I can leave anyone old, in I'll health and struggling. My husband would like to run away.

[Beautiful3]

A four figured sum?! That's crazy. No I wouldn't pay it, at all. They're going to keep asking for more. Perhaps offer £500 as a goodwill gesture.

[MaggieFS]

If a relative was desperate and caught short then I'd do what I could to help out, to a point. But it would be a one off.

This is just prolonging a poor situation. The money he gives now won't make any difference. It will be wasted. I agree with pp, far better to have it spent on an IFA consultation.

[DarkDarkNight]

what is being done about the assisted living rent? How long is relative tied in to paying rent for? Ending this now unnecessary payment is a priority. Is there any clause to get out of it?

[Springdeclutter]

@DarkDarkNight

what is being done about the assisted living rent? How long is relative tied in to paying rent for? Ending this now unnecessary payment is a priority. Is there any clause to get out of it?

I think they are nearing the end of a contractual obligation. The DH has asked about this. At Christmas we understood they were moving her furniture out of the assisted living to facilitate something but then it’s now still there and we were being offered paintings and chairs just now. As I mentioned up thread, the DH said sell the furniture etc. rather than offer it. Being quite extravagant, it’s good stuff

[MereDintofPandiculation]

So far they are managing at home but it's not sustainable and sadly this will mean a council run care home if it comes to it. Off topic, but there are very few council run care homes. What happens is that the LA will pay for a place in a private care home, at a substantial discount compared with what the private residents of the home are paying.