Grammar schools or independent schools?

[Estaa]

Good Morning everyone!
I’m in a real dilemma so can you lovely ladies help me out? My daughter passed the 11+ test.
My husband is adamant she has to go to a grammar school (we live near one) I want her to go to an independent school, I think they are much better, if she gets a scholarship (She will have an interview soon and I realise it’s difficult to get a scholarship) as she’s very intelligent. We are therefore having arguments as he’s not even happy for her to even attend the interview and now it’s affecting her. This morning she told me she hates her father! I was horrified. What’s the best option? Has anyone had an experience with the schools and which one is better? Please help me as I’m so stressed out! Xx

[Quartz2208]

but I don’t really know much about either of them.
I’ve been to their open days and that’s about it.

Then what are you and your daughter basing it on.

We had a similar situation but in the end we really had to focus on two things

1. What was best for DD
   balanced against
   
2. the financial side
   
   We loved the Indie on the open day but I did think that it was a bit of a sales pitch. Also the small class sizes were great for the early years but I did wonder if she would be stifled in later years
   
   The Grammar seemed far more inpersonal on the open day we went to first. We then visited a second time after she passed and the difference was amazing. The first time was so full it was difficult. We went with the Grammar
   
   There is a lot of emotive language and responses for something that in many ways should be a more logical rational one. She hates her father - that I suspect comes from your overreaction.
   
   Why do you think indie are better
   Can you realistically afford it.

[Hippoalley]

I think your husband has a point. Camp hill is a top school so if your daughter has a place then I would take that. EHS is a fantastic school but I wouldn't pay for it if I had a place at camp hill.

[Aethelfleda]

my one thought is that if she tries the grammar and likes it, great, if she doesn’t get on with it then the indie will have places available (though not scholarships).

It’s vrtually impossible to do it the other way round (get into a grammar from an indie) because the places are so in demand.

[Estaa]

I will watch it this evening, thank you! 😊

[XelaM]

I have recently watched a documentary on the Birmingham schools and the 11+. Camp Hill featured a lot! I would highly recommend it. It's on YouTube and called "The Big School Lottery"

[XelaM]

I'm sorry, but it sounds incredibly selfish and entitled to want to make your poor husband pay a fortune for the next seven years for a school that is worse than the free one! Totally mad and not very nice on your husband if you and your daughter have ganged up on him over something that he would have to shoulder! Either go back to work to pay for the school or make the sensible choice of one of the best schools in the country that is also FREE

[FanDabbyFloozy]

I don't know the schools in question. However..

Does your DH love his job and is it secure? If it's pressurised and precarious, his preference for a grammar may make sense: his options to slow down/change are curtailed and that affect his outlook. If he enjoys his job and it's secure, I would say the choice should be equal and made on its merits (best school etc.). Or maybe you could go out to work to share the financial burden of fees?

Your daughter's reaction is extreme though. Has someone told her that the grammar isn't as good or would she be the only one not going on to an independent school? I would be concerned that she had heard far too much for a 10/11 year old.

[Changemyname18]

As the 31 October application date for secondary schools has passed, I assumed you applied for camp hill and other state schools? Just passing the 11+ is no guarantee of getting at place at camp hill. You have to be a certain score and now they have catchment rules. There will be a lot of competition for places. You will not know until 1 March if you have the choice between EHS and Camp hill. I echo the view to try the eleven plus forums.

[Estaa]

Thank you so much for your time and for being so helpful. 😊xxx

[GirlsInGreen]

excuse the horrible typos!

[GirlsInGreen]

@Estaa - My dd turned down Camp Hill for KEHS this year - she has a full bursary otherwise no way could she have gone.

Camp Hill is a fantastic school - my dd was very conflicted when the time came to decide as she'd fallen in love with both.

I don't know anyone at EHS - but I understand if you get a scholarship you're 'tied' right through to 'A' levels - your dd could always try for a scholarship at KEHS or EHS for A levels.

I do know girls who turned down KEHS for CHG (and vice versa as is the case with my dd) but I don't know any who have turned CHG down for EHS.


I do think it's overshadowed somewhat by the King Eds Foundation schiols (grammars & KEHS) and I'm not sure why, i've only ever heard really goods things about it, and the exam results are brilliant.

Good luck on your decision!

[Lightsabre]

Maybe post on the elevenplusexams forum - there is a talk section for Birmingham and the private vs state debate comes up often. EHS not as academic as Camp Hill which is one of the top state schools in the country and also has great facilities. Personally, I think it would be crazy to pay £100,000 for EHS when you have Camp Hill on your doorstep. You could use a fraction of that money to provide any amount of extra curricular opportunities. She would also have a short journey and local friends.

[crazycrofter]

I know that EHS offer quite a number of 50% scholarships to tempt bright girls - but that would still leave £6-7k a year to pay.

EHS prep school loses their brightest girls to KEHS at 11 and other grammars so they're keen to recruit, but the intake is more mixed than KEHS or any of the grammars.

Have you been round Camp Hill? I did the rounds a few years ago (dd now year 11) and wasn't keen on Camp Hill at all, but obviously you can't tell a huge amount from the open evenings. For what it's worth I preferred KE Handsworth and KE Five Ways, although in the end dd went to KEHS. Which catchment do you live in?

[Africa2go]

OP if the interview for the indie is coming up, send your DD. You have nothing to lose. If she's subsequently offered a place, then it gives you an extra option, particularly as it sounds like you have no guarantee of a place at the grammar school.

I don't know the schools, but if the fees are average for an indie, you are looking at £15,000 a year (from net salary) - so about £1250 per month. That is quite a lot of pressure on family finances (and on your H) if he is the only one earning. Obviously 7 years of fees (without any assistance / scholarship, and ignoring the inevitable fee increases) you're looking at over £100,000 to the end of sixth form.

For me personally, if your DD had a place at the top (state) grammar school in Birmingham, which was local to you, the independent school would have to be AMAZING to warrant the cost.

[Estaa]

Thank you for being so helpful. Xx

[KingsHeathen]

And did she not sit for KEHS? That would be a more difficult call, depending on your DD's nature/personality. KES have already invited their scholarship interviewees, so I'm assuming KEHS have too.

[KingsHeathen]

And if you do live by CHG, have you ever done the school run from KH to EHS???

1hour 20mins each way some days...

[KingsHeathen]

I do know the schools, v well, and if you're after academics, it would be Camp Hill all the way. Look at EHS' A level results, and their destinations- they really do not compare in any way to CHG.

Are you in catchment though? If you aren't, even with an amazing score, there's absolutely no guarantee of a place now the catchment children get priority. They only need to get 222 to get in (a huge difference from 249 for CHB last year!)

[BubblesBuddy]

Its not just about results though. Independent schools can offer more in lots of other ways.

[BubblesBuddy]

Got the t shirt estaa. I recognise your DH in mine! Actually mine came on board with my wishes though because it was patently obvious it was the best choice for DD. It appeared to his “look at me haven’t I done well?” nature though.

[JoJoSM2]

The grammar school has much much stronger GCSE results than the indie. Why do you feel the latter would be the better option for your daughter?

[Fifthtimelucky]

I don't know either of the schools but the Edgbaston website is reasonably helpful. At 11+ the entrance tests are maths and English and all are interviewed. There are no separate scholarship tests (except for music scholarships), but you seem to have to express an interest in a scholarship or bursary when you apply. It doesn't seem to say how much scholarships are worth, but for the 6th form it is 10-30%

If she has an interview coming up, presumably your daughter has already taken the entrance tests, which took place last month. It seems a bit late to be having this discussion now. Did you and your husband discuss entry before you registered her, or was the independent intended as a fallback in case she didn't get into the grammar?

My daughters went to a selective independent school but if there had been a grammar in the area we would have used that and saved ourselves a lot of money.

I agree that your husband shouldn't be able to dictate things just because he is the sole earner, and I don't know how much he earns or what else he might want to do with the money that would be saved if your daughter went to the grammar, but I think it would be easier to defend your preference for independent school if you were prepared to earn some of the money it would cost!

Do you have other children to consider? Would you want private education for them too? Think about the total potential cost.

[converseandjeans]

Just did google search & King Edwards Camp Hill is best school in Birmingham.
I don't think it matters who earns the money. But I honestly can't see what would make someone pay lots for an independent school when you can go for free to the best school in a big city like Birmingham.
People travel miles nowadays for that opportunity. DH probably thinks there's no point spending money when you have been given an amazing opportunity already.

[Estaa]

You’re absolutely spot on as I do everything from school runs, school clubs, food shopping to cooking and cleaning! 😔