Why didn't your child apply to Oxford or Cambridge?

[ZeroSomeGameThingy]

www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/27/oxbridge-state-school-numbers-falling

Given that most people who apply will not get in - there's no shame in an unsuccessful application. So what are the real reasons for this apparent reluctance?

[ThighMistress]

My dc got in from a state school - the most help they got was from me quoting Mumsnet!

I would say though that most state school kids well, any kids actually, want to go to Oxbridge for the academic excellence and the traditions. It’s patronising to have the notion that widening access should involve axing nice dinners/gowns/Latiny bits, let alone giving kids the idea that it’s not “super intensive” (see poster above in charge of widening participation ) . Are state school kids incapable of hard work and sitting down to eat?

[Artsyblartsymum]

@Cod

I obviously posted on this under an alias all those years ago.

REVEAL. - my youngest son got in. He’s the one I moaned about in my first ever post on here when he was a baby 😀

state school. Applied in lockdown. No help at all from anyone.

im pretty proud.

Hilarious. I only just realised how old this thread was.

[Artsyblartsymum]

@TheWordFactory

I'm involved in the widening access scheme for Oxbridge and experience has shown me that there are hugely varied reasons why students don't apply, some justified, many not.

Ones I've come across include;

1. It costs more to study there.
   
2. All the students are rich.
   
3. You have to have been to public school.
   
4. People from 'ordinary' backgrounds feel out of place.
   
5. Lectures are often in Latin (no really).
   
6. You have to have all A*s at GCSE.
   
7. You're not allowed to work during term time.
   
8. It's super-intensive.
   
9. It's too old fashioned.
   

10. You have to live in a college.
11. You're not allowed to stay in accommodation during the holidays.
12. Everyone there is a genuis.

I could go on....

But the main reason why students from less advanatged backgrounds don't apply is the overwhelming feeling that it's just not for people like them. That all the students are posh and/or genius level geeks.

I love your answer. My DD went to Oxford this year and yes we heard a lot of these things as she was going through the application process, which is daunting especially for state school kids, which she was, because you just don't have any hand holding when applying to universities in general. Also, with Oxford you have to declare a college and we had very little guidance. She did a lot of research herself. Her school encouraged her to apply, but they didn't help her anymore than they helped the rest of her cohort applying to further education and apprenticeships. They made sure she knew the deadlines, checked she had a personal statement. They did tell her she needed to take the LNAT for her course AFTER the LNAT deadlines. Luckily she clocked this about 6 months earlier because she did her research and had already taken it. Many of her friends applied, a few got interviews and 4 including her got in from her state school. They are all at different colleges. The work is intense. She does have to move out of her room during the holidays, but she gets a locker to store some of her things. She's met lovely normal people from all different backgrounds and she is loving it thankfully. She's hoping to go back to her state school and help others who may be in encouraged to apply like she did because they have the grades but feel intimidated because of their back ground. You don't have to be posh to go there. You do have to be smart and on it. But, she has wonderful friends who didn't get in and have gone off to other great universities. And those kids are also smart and bright.

[mrBanks]

@Cod hah!!

[Cod]

thanks He really did. Never visited. Interview by zoom. Aiming for a first


and spoiler HE DID SLEEP THROUGH EVENTUALLY

[mrBanks]

@Cod well done, what amazing news to hear. Absolutely love to hear these stories of children going to normal schools and having the intelligence, resilience and application to achieve to that level. Hope to hear so many more of these stories in the future. I hope he is having a ball!

[Cod]

I obviously posted on this under an alias all those years ago.

REVEAL. - my youngest son got in. He’s the one I moaned about in my first ever post on here when he was a baby 😀

state school. Applied in lockdown. No help at all from anyone.

im pretty proud.

[ZeroSomeGameThingy]

Ah … So it was you, @EastLondonObserver …. Whatever made you decide to resurrect an eight year old thread?

But what a stupendous read it is, second time around! So Much Has Changed since 2014 in terms of Oxbridge access. At least it appears that way to me and I’m familiar with both universities. (And have seen the evolution since my own undergrad days in the 80s.)

MN felt different in 2014, too. I know everyone name changes, but I suspect some of the wonderfully articulate posters above are simply not here any more. (And yes, I do understand how that sounds. )

(PS - I’m much more up to date on current Uni funding now; youngest in the family currently an undergrad - so really don’t need any more info!)

[EastLondonObserver]

1. Because they viewed university as not just an educational experience, but as a life experience. Consequently, they were looking for a large lively city with plenty of gigs, clubs and culture. They'd had enough of the small town they'd grown up in and wanted a place where they could start to live as an independent (ish) adult. Oxford and Cambridge can't hold a candle to Manchester, Birmingham or London in terms of stuff going on. Yes, there are loads of societies and whatnot, but most of DCs passions involved interacting not only with other students.
2. Because they felt they wouldn't find their 'tribe' at Oxbridge - too many posh people, privately educated and, most importantly, not enough kids into the kind of underground art, music and culture that is their passion.
3. Because they weren't interested in the kinds of careers - journalism, banking, law, science etc where Oxbridge carries real weight.

They got four A grade As at A level including to A*s and went to a RG uni in a big city. A decade later, it's all worked out fine.

[Molio]

No, fees are reduced for the less well off at Oxford and Cambridge. And at other very good universities too. But the financial aid at Oxford and Cambridge tops the tables and is awarded without any special application beyond the standard application to SFE, and is also applied across the board regardless of college. The fee reduction was introduced to meet the fee hike in 2012, though the maintenance support system had been in place for years before that, again automatically through applying through the standard SFE channel.

[duchesse]

FreeSpirit, the fees are the same in pretty much all universities now. Whether you go to Oxbridge or London Metropolitan the fees are £9000/year.

[ZeroSomeGameThingy]

FreeSpirit You must have seen the discussion regarding tuition fees above?

I'm lucky to come from the era of grants rather than loans - but I find it hard to understand how anyone who has taken the trouble to fully inform themselves about the student loan scheme would find it sufficiently off-putting as to prevent them applying to the university they think would suit best.

[FreeSpirit89]

Because money didn't grow on trees in my house. The inheritance my family received when I was a child didn't get out into trust for me, and was spent on keeping a roof over our head.

I as a 16-18 year old couldn't afford the tuition fees, and tbh I couldn't have foreseen my way out of the debt it would have cause me.

Some students don't have rich families able to subsidise there learning and are left with little or no choice.

It's a cultural divide that looks under to change, money goes to money.

[Milliways]

My DD went to Cambridge, and DS (4 years younger) said that he wanted "a life" at Uni, having seen the stresses she went through in her first year and what was expected every holiday. He is having a whale of a time a another RG Uni.
DD was the first in our family to go to any Uni, so I would encourage anyone who wants to apply to go for it, but I can see DS is having much more fun!

[JaneParker]

(I think there was change. I was late 70s. However I would have thought had my head really wanted to make the effort she could have rung round and found out rather than just saying no. Of course I may not have got in anyway although I did get the best exam results in the school etc)

[uiler123]

I went to Cambridge two years early in the 90s - I was only just 16 when I started and 15 when I applied. In my year there were a number of other students who were young for year. I know also people who went to Oxford in the 80s and 90s who were young for year, including other members of my family.

When I was applying I checked with a number of Oxbridge colleges whether my age would be a problem. I was told that each case was considered individually and for maths/sciences gap years were generally not viewed as particularly desirable.

As an Oxbridge admissions tutor I have admitted students who were young for year but it is less common to see grade skipped students nowadays as state schools very rarely skip - most such students come from private schools.

[JaneParker]

Ah Ianie, that is interesting about the sibling. My headmistress told me as I was a year young I could not apply to Oxbridge( no one had ever been from my school) and I went to university aged 17 and graduated at 20. Looking back I assumed the head was just being difficult but may be it was a strict rule? I did not want a gap year for some reason, just to get on. Has not mattered. My siblings went.

[Molio]

lainie your FIL sounds a mesmerizingly mean minded old bugger.

[Molio]

My line with my own DC is to encourage any which expresses an interest but to sound a note of caution at the same time. My reasoning is that a parent who positively discourages is sending a very negative message. Obviously if I knew it to be out of the question I might try and get myself diplomatically out that particular tight spot, but provided there's even a vague chance, and the place appeals - why not? I certainly try to avoid the 'heart set' mentality though.

[lainiekazan]

Ah, the two EE offer. I had two of those from other universities, too.

Zero: dh had to go to his local university, which fortunately was quite good. He was forced to live at home, though, which was a reasonable distance away. He even had to take his own sandwiches in every day. Now all this would be ok if his parents were poor - but they were very comfortably off indeed. Sorry - this is a whole other thread - but fil droned on ad infinitum about why should his sons get opportunities that he hadn't had . It was only when dh went out into the world that he realised that other people's parents actually wanted the best for their dcs rather than resenting any success they might have.

About ds - he is a clever boy, but one has to be realistic about Oxbridge chances. These kids who profess to want to go Oxford when they're six or whatever - well, pride comes before a fall. And as was mentioned upthread - someone is fuelling their "dream" - there is an eminence grise (aka Tiger Mother) beavering away behind the scenes.

[duchesse]

I know a very bright 30 something year old who spent his years from 12 to 19 living on a boat in a boatyard, had no formal education in that time but learned ship-building instead. He eventually went to study engineering in his mid 20s, but his university made him jump through a lot of stupid hoops before they would allow him on the course. He would have been a perfect 2E candidate.

[ZeroSomeGameThingy]

I think the entrance exam was brilliant for people whose school education had been disrupted in any way.

Even now there must be plenty of potential entrants whose school life fell apart, or who had no support whatsoever or who didn't get their act together until they were a little older than "normal" (but not yet with a successful career behind them.) For all of those the entrance exam could be your one chance to really show what you can do. I think it's a pity that the non-cookie cutter possibles may no longer see a way in.

[hench]

One college at Cambridge made about a third of its offers at 2Es until fairly recently (I know someone who got one about 5 or 6 years ago), so I think its a case of deciced against it rather than not allowed to. In the main they stopped happening quite a while ago, probably as Herc says, mainly when entrance exams were phased out and old style grants stopped as they were fairly normal before that.

[HercShipwright]

duchesse I think they went the way of all flesh when they scrapped the entrance exam and when grants stopped (the offer was 2 Es not because they wanted you to get 2Es but because you wouldn't get a grant unless you had 2Es. Conservatoires also made 2E offers in those days). It's probably for the best.

[duchesse]

Herc, I don't think they're allowed to give 2E offers any more. More's the pity. I bet they got some really talented and interesting people with 2E offers. Last one I heard of was a kid at the DCs' school about 10-11 years ago, who actually failed to even take his A levels and moved to the South Pacific instead to save the orang utang.