The Trinity Whitgift Dulwich 11+/10+ thread 2014 pt3

[SJ69]

Part 2 reached 1000 posts so start part 3 here.
If you need to follow part 2, the link is as follow.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/1974488-The-Trinity-Whitgift-Dulwich-11-10-thread-2014-pt2?reverse=1

[winniethepoor]

Will it be prep school boys will be ahead in some of the subjects? Also, Wilson wrote to some parents who put it not as first choice to contact them if they now want a place with Wilson. I think they are trying to get the best boys. Do not know if Sutton Grammar and Wallington Boys did the same.

[Ladymuck]

Agree Pookie, not so much about the Sutton places per se, but clearly a number of the 424 who passed were sitting with Olaves or Tiffin as their first choice. Oh well, useful to know - if nothing else it should give hope to those who pass SET but not Wilson's that they're not out of the running at all. Given that one of the key differences between the schools was the English paper, I wonder to what extent this changed the relative rankings? Of course, at the cut off for these schools, the marks of the boys are likely to be bunched together, so it may not be able to see much of a pattern at all.

[Ladymuck]

I'm curious that Wilson's are in fact allowed to approach parents who have been offered a place by their higher preference. I would have expected the data on candidates who had passed but not chosen the school to not then be used by the school to solicit a late application. I guess that may be one of the reasons why they have to consult on the supplementary information form? So essentially they are using data freely given by parents directly to the school, and not via the CAF?

I know the girls's schools have done similar.

[winniethepoor]

Yes, I received the letter from Wilson and asked us to contact their admission team if we are interested. We put Wilson as 2nd choice and DS was already admitted to his 1st choice school. My friend received a similar letter, with Wilson being 3rd choice!

[Ladymuck]

I guess it also explains in part why Wilson's is waiting another week before going down its own waitlist. Seems strange that the 3 Sutton schools don't have to reoffer to the same timetable?

[EyesWideClosed]

winnie: Do you mind saying what your first choice was and your friend's? Are you tempted?

[winniethepoor]

EyesWideClosed, no both me and my friend are not tempted (otherwise would have chosen Wilson as our 1st choice). My DS will go to Sutton Grammar which is within walking distance to us, makes things so much easier. My friend's son also chosen and can get into Sutton Grammar but he will go to a good private school for various reasons.

[pooziepuzzle]

EyesWideClosed did you make your decision? Think this poaching of boys happens every year

[EyesWideClosed]

Poozie: Wilson's
Ladymuck: please expand on your theory about the English paper at Wilson's. Do you think that it might shift the school away from the (rightly or wrongly) Maths /Science bias?

[Myriam35690]

EyeWideClosed - nice to hear that you have reached a decision and chosen Wilson's as well.

[pooziepuzzle]

I am presuming there will be quite a bit of movement between the grammars? Boys who maybe didn't get first choice grammar now shifting as places become available?

[Ladymuck]

Oh, I wasn't thinking about the maths/science bias of the school per se. I'm more interested in how the grammars and the indies make their selections given the different parameters in both sectors.

The independents have a smaller pool to select from, and are therefore forced to take a wider range of ability, and so they need to ensure that they have boys who will work well in their environments. They can also charge boys to sit their tests. (I wonder if the day is coming when an additional fee will be levied to sit for scholarships?!)

The grammars can only select by test results, but the cost of testing comes directly from their budgets - there is no central funding for this. Off the top of my head a company such as GL charge over £20 per multiple paper to mark and standardise it. Where the marking has to be done by hand eg essays and standard form maths, the costs increase further. Hence the move to sharing a single screening/eligibility test, thereby allowing the schools to either reduce the costs or to concentrate on the more time consuming areas eg writing.

The schools have now been consulting on next year's admissions. Wilson's had already been the school which applied the least weighting to the SET (30%) and most to their own maths and English papers (35% each), with the other 2 schools being 40:30:30 I believe. For next year the Wilson's ratios are 20:40:40, so the English paper will have even greater weight. I'm speculating as to why they've gone in that direction, and my assumption is that they feel that they can differentiate between the boys better via the English than the maths (I get the impression that an awful lot of these boys can get at least 80% in a maths paper every time without breaking a sweat, with many who would feel that 95% would be a disappointment!).

I do think that there are potential dangers if creative writing does become the key differentiator for an intake given it can be very subjective to mark.

[SweetPenelope]

I thought schools don't get told where their school is put on the form. Wilson's will only know that a boy did well in the exam, but isn't on the list of admissions. So I guess it's worth a try to get the highest scorers.

[pooziepuzzle]

Someone mentioned to me about sibling policy within grammar system. I didn't think there was one. Any knowledge anyone?

[EyesWideClosed]

Winnie: Did your letter imply that if you were interested there would be a place for your ds or that he would go on the waiting list?
poozie: Wilson's clearly states that there is no sibling policy. I presume that applies to other schools

[SweetPenelope]

No sibling policies at the schools we tried for I.e. Sutton grammars and Tiffins. Don't know about other schools.

Admission policies have to be clearly defined and will be on a school's website.

[pooziepuzzle]

Anyone attending Whitgift had any correspondence from them? I am presuming they will write to tell me to contact uniform shop etc? Thanks

[winniethepoor]

Eyeswideclose: my letter says Wilson will put my DS on reserve list but according to my friend, hers said Wilson will offer a place for her DS if he is interested

[burntoutdad]

Poozie - don't worry you will get loads of information about everything before DS starts, maybe even a little too much! As the totally unorganized parents we are it was a struggle to keep up.

[Myriam35690]

SweetPenelope... I think you are right there... I now remember the Wilson's head clearly stating that it was illegal for them to be told of DSs' school order on CAF. I think they are simply work

[Myriam35690]

SweetPenelope... I think you are right there... I now remember the Wilson's head clearly stating that it was illegal for them to be told of DSs' school order on CAF. I think they are simply working their way down the exams results list if they still have some places.

[winniethepoor]

Yes, I don't think schools will be told of the school order on the CAF but they will know if your son is allocated to their school. It may be that if your son has passed with good marks and has not been allocated their school, they will write to you. The only strange thing is both me and my friend received the letter from Wilson on 04/03/14 when the school did not know if those boys being offered places will accept their offers yet. I could understand being offered to go on the reserve list but being given an offer straight away if one is interested like my friend seems that the school is assuming that some boys will turn down its offer

[AliceLostinWonderland]

winniethepoor - we received a letter from Wilson's as well re placing DS on their reserve list. My DS going to Sutton Grammar as well!

I really need help/guidance from all of you - a friend's DS is 10th position on the waiting list for Wallington, what are her chances of being offered a place? They are desperate for this place as they were offered the local comp on 3rd March.

[apricotdanish]

AliceLostinWonderland, We also got a letter offering to place my son on the reserves list at Wilson's but accepted a place at Wallington, his first choice.
I don't have any in depth knowledge of these things but I would have thought 10th on the waiting list would place your friend's son in quite a strong position. I know schools over offer in anticipation of places being turned down for other options but I'd have imagine there'd be more than 10 places available from the waiting list once people have made their choices, but as I say I don't have any in depth knowledge so can only speculate. We're really happy with our choice but many seem to be going for Wilson's above Wallington so anything could happen.

[pooziepuzzle]

I know indies over offer but surely the grammars are not able to? Also interested in hearing how much movement there may be on grammar waiting lists.