UCAS rejections. What now?

[FramboiseCoulis]

A family member already has her A-levels, 3 A* and one A (Maths, Physics, English and Further Maths).
She's not getting any offers for uni. We can't understand it, she's such a well-rounded candidate with excellent references.

Any advice on where we go from here?
Any sucess stories out there with Clearning?

We're all gutted for her :-(

cheers

[Shootingatpigeons]

Actually come to think of it not 5in the top 10 , as 2 were strategic, for insurance, but 3 is more than enough to be giving us a headache and a huge road trip of offers days. 1 really is enough.

Also I wonder if the DD has really looked at the tables before she applied. Warwick is probably not as highly rated in terms of the subject specific tables as it would be in a general table. www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?s=English and it is not about absolute position but the individual factors and what matters to you. York for instance is highest rated for research. Did she make strategic choices rather than just going for "top universities" that are always going to be ultra competitive.

[Shootingatpigeons]

cory my tongue was in my cheek!

I did wonder if the applicants PS looked good to her relations and teachers but wasn't from the heart. My DDs PS frankly made me wince, quirky was definitely it, but it was all hers and it reflected her "passions" and she has 5 offers from unis in the top 10.

[wordfactory]

And I don't know about you cory but I cannot stand applicants/studnets who say they're really into [insert something they consider worthy and serious] but when questioned, have clearly no love of it.

Be honest FGS.

[cory]

Shootingatpigeons Thu 13-Feb-14 09:34:05
"cory you used the "passion" word, if this was higher Ed, you would get a few admissions officers on here baying for your blood"

I didn't mean she should use the word "passion", of course that would be a foolish thing to do in your personal statement. Cliched language is never a good look.

I meant that it should be evident from the statement itself, from the way she talked about her interests and pursuits, from her reading and what she showed she had learnt from it. There is nothing we hate more in the English dept than a student who turns up with brilliant A-levels but when asked what books s/he likes to read goes "nah, I don't really read books".

[wordfactory]

No need to panic yet OP, still three chances left!

Is one Bristol by chance? They're notoriously slow and their offers are often last in!!!

It seems like you thought she'd be a shoo in for all five. But that doesn't often happen, even for the great candidates.

BTW what are her GCSEs like? Did she do history and MFL? English departments like to see these subjects at A level to be fair, but at GCSE at the very least.

And what has she been doing in her gap year?

[BeckAndCall]

Also, does she have an A* in English? Or is that her A ? That would make a difference for somewhere like UCL too.

[BeckAndCall]

Some unis are quite open about the subjects they prefer to see at A2 fro English - presumably she took these into account when making her application? Others are not so clear and providing she has a good range of unis on her application she will probably get an offer. ( but I agree that she looks disadvantaged again anyone with an A * in history or politics or a MFL)

But if her other choices are all the really competitive courses - like Durham, St Andrews - then I'd be worried.

Although, tbh, most of the Russell group have given out their decisions in English for most of the girls at my DDs school - Nottingham, Exeter, Manchester, Edinburgh so maybe she has a different range on her form.

Is she applying for straight English everywhere , as that really makes a difference to both chances and timing? English with creative writing for example is more competitive again.

But as a good news story, my DD is doing English at uni and her pattern of offers and rejections was first rejection and first offer in December. Next rejection in January. Final rejection and second offer on the same day in early March. Which goes to show the up and down nature of an English application and that you only need one good offer!

[Unexpected]

OP, you seem to be turning this into a catastrophe which it is not - at least not yet. This family member (I assume not your daughter) has 5 university choices, she has been rejected by ONE very competitive one and is waiting on interview results from another although she now doesn't like that university. Would she however accept the place if offered? She still has three possible offers open.

However, she must realise, despite whatever advice she may or may not have been given, that Eng Lit is a hugely competitive course and almost EVERYONE applying for it will be lovely, well-rounded, with good refs etc. Her change of heart from a very different type of course and her A level choices are difficult to explain away and saying that English is her passion begs the very obvious question of why she did not apply for this course last year? Presuming she is on a gap year, what is she doing at the moment - working in anything related to English, arts, drama, maybe? Does she have actual evidence of her interest in English - participating in or starting a book group, volunteering with a literacy scheme, entering poetry competitions etc? Because that's the kind of thing others will be offering up.

I also don't agree that she has necessarily been given bad advice by her school, she did, after all, leave school last year with university offers - she just changed her mind about what she wanted to do. We also don't know from where she learned that physics would mainly lead to careers in research - you say "she realised", not necessarily that anyone told her that? She actually sounds under quite a lot of pressure to capitalise on her great A level results and she seems to have an extended family circle watching her every move. Maybe it's time for everyone to step back and let her evaluate what it is she actually wants to do - does she even want to go to university? Someone upthread recommended some career counselling and I think that sounds like an excellent idea for her at this point.

[Shootingatpigeons]

I wonder if she considered one of the new liberal arts courses? They are a response to the increasing popularity of similar courses in the US and indeed, the increasing extent to which academic advances cross the traditional boundaries between disciplines, both in the arts and the sciences. Nature and humanity are undisciplined and do not always fit into neat categories. This is UCLs www.ucl.ac.uk/basc Cambridge has of course always required it's Science students to study Natural Sciences, another course which might attract your relative, and at UCL would allow her to study the sts courses I linked earlier together with the any science modules she wishes to study. These are all prestigious courses, very marketable to all employers. I doubt they will crop up in extra or clearing but with her qualifications she would surely be an excellent candidate. It might be worth a try. Also there is the controversial new college of the humanities www.nchum.org/undergraduate-study/courses expensive but may have a pot of money for an outstanding candidate?

[Blueberrypots]

Sorry my first sentence didn't make sense, I meant to say "I second also that she seems to have received some bad advice".

[Blueberrypots]

I second also all the ill advice she seems to have received.

I am still not convinced that English is what she really wants to do, it seems to me that she could do with a proper session with someone who knows what they are talking about before she embarks on a degree she may not enjoy. Sorry but that's what I would do if she was my daughter.

[Shootingatpigeons]

cory you used the "passion" word, if this was higher Ed, you would get a few admissions officers on here baying for your blood And to be fair prospective English Literature students should be able to rise above cliche.....

[moonbells]

I second all the comments about her getting poor advice about physics careers. I am indeed a researcher, as it was what I always wanted to do, but I work in medical physics. Most other physicists in my hospital are working in treatment planning for people with cancer, or making sure the life-saving kit is working properly. And the ability to write coherently is a distinct advantage! I would say that over 50% of the physicists here are women, including at senior level. It is a brilliant career path and has the full benefit of NHS pensions and maternity packages.

Others I was at university with became teachers, accountants, patent lawyers (they love science grads there) as well as researchers and things that had nothing to do with science at all.

Anyway, if she doesn't like research, how on earth is she going to write good essays? They are all about research too!

Hope she gets something.

[Slipshodsibyl]

Actually, if she has three still left to offer, she hasn't necessarily done anything especially wrong. I have known extremely strong English candidates be rejected from top institutions. It is tough competition.

[ProfPlumSpeaking]

So she has only had one rejection - from UCL, one of the very hardest universities at which to gain admission? I think you are giving up rather too early. It is easy to be disheartened at this stage as many of those kids getting rejections have never failed at anything before in their whole lives so this is a shock. She is still in with lots of chances by the sound of it!

However, worst case scenario, if and when she has all rejections (and/or is offered Warwick and turns it down) then she can make more applications and change her PS - a little known possibility on UCAS. Just one at a time, mind, so the trick is to phone up the Uni in questions and speak to the admissions tutor and get a "promise" of an offer before putting in the new application. She should get some feedback first and be very sure about what she wants to do.

It will all work out as long as she can stay positive.

[cory]

It might help to think about what universities need from a student as well as the other way round.

English literature as a university subject is divided between lectures, seminars, essays and exams. The lectures and exams clearly only demand conscientiousness, intelligence and a retentive memory from the individual student. Essays in addition demand a certain amount of creativeness but again only from the student in question.

Seminars are different: unless a sizeable proportion of the students in any one seminar group are really wide awake and passionate about their subject and willing to think on their feet the seminar will be an unsatisfying experience for all the students.

Or to put it in a different way, if you mistakenly take on the wrong sort of student you will ruin it for everybody. Not to mention that somebody who gets taken on without the right enthusiastic creative attitude to her subject is likely to have a miserable time themselves.

I would suspect that your family member's sudden change of plan simply may not have given her enough time to demonstrate her passion and enthusiasm. Or she may not have realised how important it was to provide evidence of this in her personal statement. With her choice of A-levels one probably want to see some additional evidence that English lit really is the passion of her life: evidence of involvement in amateur theatre or writing groups or reading groups.

It's not about quirkiness in general: it's about what you can bring to this particular subject.

[Shootingatpigeons]

By the way the student room link is to the advice from the Leeds admissions tutor. They have posted some similar advice on their website. The advice about the ps being "quirky not weird" comes from a top 10 uni admissions tutor, yes quote from different times and genres, and also don't forget places, but also it does not specify the canon. Quirky would be not necessarily sticking to the canon.

[MillyMollyMama]

She still has 3 universities left though. She should not have expected all 5 to give her a place. Presumably the other three are worth going to or she would not have put them on the application. Lots of English students are not inundated with offers, especially ones with only one essay subject to offer. Don't give up hope just yet, but the choice of A levels may not stack up well against other well qualified students.

[Matsikula]

This might be less popular with you, but has she thought about US universities? They would generally allow a more flexible mix of undergraduate courses, and I am sure would be more open minded on subject. She's probably late in the admissions cycle but a call to somewhere like one of good (and well-endowed so that funding could be a possibility) state universities like Michigan or Berkeley, or even one of the Ivy Leagues would at least help her scope her options.

Another option would be Ireland. Unless things have changed, they do all processing after their summer exam results come out, and they ONLY look at the points tarriff. I suspect she would be a dead cert for English Lit at Trinity College Dublin, and again, might be able to combine subjects more flexibly than in a UK university because the Irish do a baccalaureate style qualification. Don't know what the fees are like, but definitely worth a look.

Aso of course there is another shot at clearing, but at this stage, the best approach is probably to sort out as many possbilities as possible and then hone in on a preferred strategy afterwards.

[Shootingatpigeons]

Also if you are floored by not getting your top two through UCAS then you have not been well prepared.......

[Shootingatpigeons]

Complete rubbish on careers. I know of at least one hedge fund manager who recruits exclusively from the Imperial Physics course (not that that is the only alternative to research obviously). Especially not true of Physics and Philosophy. DD is wanting to do research but she is being pampered and groomed because not that many doing Science degrees do.

[SlowlorisIncognito]

Also, just because the school say it is a good application does not mean it is good. Many schools give students poor advice about the personal statement in particular. As she has been badly advised about physics, I do wonder if she has been badly advised in other ways.

Obivously it is not a perfect application, as she would have got a place!

[SlowlorisIncognito]

There's some really good advice about applying to English lit here taken from admissions tutors-

www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2012563

It is a competitive course and universities are often looking for applicants to demonstrate certain things in their personal statements. Did she, for example, show she's read books outside of modern literature?

As Creamteas said, she does have English Literature A-level doesn't she, not a different English? If she doesn't specifically have lit, then she may have real problems getting a place.

[creamteas]

she opted out of a phsyics degree when she realised that the career path is mainly research

She really, really has been badly advised. There are only a tiny number of careers where you need an English Lit degree. The majority of English grads go into careers that accept any degree. All of these are open to students with physics......

[Didyouhearmeontheradio]

She's been ill advised about physics then. I did physics first degree. I went on to be a research scientist, and then into law. Other friends became medical physicists, radiographers, IT consultants, solicitors, programmers, teachers (primary and secondary), technical consultants, business people, civil servants, church ministers, sales people, writers (technical and novels), photographer, doctor, anything that they want a degree for and much that they don't.