Best Education money can afford - from start to finish.

[mirtzapine]

This isn't meant to be intense or anything, what I'm looking for is some direction, advice and information.

Background:
I was fortunate enough to have two very intelligent grandparents who helped me a lot. I went to a pretty bad (state) school that didn't help much. I also spent a lot of time bunking school, sitting in the local library where the Head Librarian was a former house-master of a well known boarding school in the west country. He took a lot of time with me knowing my grandparents and knowing the reasons I bunked school. I used my part-time job money to pay for 'o' levels at night school that got me into the grammar school sixth from. From there to university and on to post grad.

The downside of my "unconventional" education is that the basics of effective study, doing homework, mocks for exams &c.bypassed me, so its always been a real struggle for me to study and sit exams, by some means or other, I've passed them.

I have no intention of being a "Tiger Parent", but I would like my two dd's to have the best groundings possible from schooling, so that in the future the world will be their oyster - educationally speaking, the pick of the litter, so to speak when it comes to Universities and courses.

Financially, I've worked that bit out, projecting inflation, cost of living and ancillary costs over the next 23 years based on the three London Schools I'd like them to go to and the four RG Universities to doctoral level.

Sounds a bit harsh, eh! mapping out their lives like that. That's not the intention, the intention is to plan the best possible. if they choose to go on different paths - b'ezrat Hashem (shrugs shoulders).

My Question:
So from experience, knowledge and understanding, what do people consider necessary to ground them on the right paths to educational success?

[satine]

I visited lots of schools until I found the one that simply felt right. As it turned out, that was an independent prep school with a really magical pre-school, but had it been the local state primary, we would have chosen that. The prep school we chose was the one with the happiest atmosphere, the one where the children seemed to be enjoying themselves (we did see several where the children looked pretty grey and grim, tbh) and where the extra-curricular stuff on offer was exciting and different. Lots of lessons outside, lots of chances to climb trees, play conkers and be children for as long as possible.
Now we're choosing the next school on the same basis and, sad to say for our poor bank balance, the best school is another public one. But not top flight in price.
So basically, what I'm saying is visit as many schools as you possibly can, speak to everyone you know with children to get their honest opinion and then go with your instinct.
And remember - NO school is going to be perfect. There will always be niggles and irritations, but as long as you can discuss these with the teacher/headteacher, they can usually be resolved.

[Ecuador]

OP I can promise you from the bottom of my heart that I've never ever micro-managed or planned my children's future. They are at fee-paying school and that is all I'm thinking about now, what they do after that is anyone's guess.

I would absolutely loathe to be surrounded by people saying that little Jimmy is going to be a barrister, doctor, accountant whatever - how grim to be mapping their lives out for them like that. I would imagine that it must be quite exhausting for both the parents and children of such ambition and expectation.

If mine go on to be ballet dancers, bank clerks or end up throwing pots in Cornwall I will be happy as long as they are happy and can support themselves relatively well.

[Wuldric]

OP you are optimistic to the point of being entirely unrealistic.

You will not have that degree of influence over your children's lives that you can determine that they will do phds. Nor should you have. There is no earthly point in a phd unless you are planning for your kids to be academics.

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately (given my track record on decision-making) my kids will make their own minds up and it will be my role to support and enable them as best I can.

Mine are in good schools but DD is workshy and will not achieve the grades that she is capable of. I have begged, bullied, cajoled and even got her a supplementary tutor, but she will not achieve her target of 11 A*. Because she just cba. Frustrating, but true. You have to work with the material you have. Going to an academic school does enable academic children, but if you have a child who won't work, there is very little you can do about it.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

I studied law at university and you could really tell the ones who were doing it because their parents thought it was a good idea. The lucky ones managed to switch course.

[mirtzapine]

So given that the general consensus is, don't plan anything, let them find their own way and all education levels out in the end.

Cool, I can point DW at this thread as justification for paying for a three week holiday on the barrier reef and the 6.8 ltr Chevrolet Corvette fancied for a long while.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Sadly, I'm sure she would see through the spin you are putting on what was said in order to justify the gas guzzler!

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

On a serious note, I see the point of spending on education (both formal and informal) to give your children choices. It would all be a bit meaningless if I then took the choices away from them and steered them towards my preference.

[NumptyNameChange]

i'd spend it on a spelling course and some better antidepressants. mirtazapine will have you pile on so much weight you'll need that gas guzzler to drag your arse around.

[lljkk]

I didn't think consensus was "don't plan anything." More like "the best laid plans can easily go awry so only plan one step at a time and don't be surprised if even that goes a bit pear-shaped."

[teacherwith2kids]

Agree with lijkk - rather than have 'A Fixed Grand Plan of Everything', have a 'best fit for your children' plan for the stage imediately in front of you, a provisional 'general possible direction' plan for the next stage.... and a 'if it all goes pear shaped contingency' plan at all times!

[teacherwith2kids]

(Having money to throw at the problem if needed is a pretty good contingency plan option, btw. We are absolutely vehemently opposed to private schooling, and where we live it is of poorer quality than the state options anyway. But knowing that, in the case of total disaster, emerging special need or similar unforseen cuircumstance, we could buy education, extra-curricular activities or educational help in the short term at least is a comfort to me!)

[IAlwaysThought]

A trip to The Great Barrier Reef is an education in itself

[mindgone]

I think that one of the best ways I have helped my children's education has been being a stay at home mum (mostly). It gives so much more time and energy to them. It's helpful to be near really good state schools however.
I am actually curious to know which are the 4 acceptable RG universities too! My DS is applying at the moment, and I'm just wondering whether he has applied to any of them!

[grovel]

Durham, Bristol, Exeter, York.

[LondonMother]

Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL. Nothing like aiming high, I suppose!

[lljkk]

Best Dept. depends what subject you study.
I bet none of the named institutions are the best places to get qualified in horse physiotherapy (e.g.).

[mindgone]

I think DS is stuffed! [big grin]

[mindgone]

[losingtrust]

It is true that some parents have told their kids what they will be. My meighbour's little girl has been told all her life she will be a doctor. Shame as the little girl is really good at art. My ds wants to be a politician. I have told him that if he wants to do that really he needs to do PPE at Oxford. He is not the most hard working kid in the World though so it depends how much he wants it. Dd wants to be a singer and I have tried to encourage her in other areas as well because she is tone deaf!

[NumptyNameChange]

agree with whoever said best uni depends on what you want to study - if the aim is to get the best education rather than the best bit of status that is.

[Minifingers]

mirtzapine

Or you could be really lucky and have a really bright dc like mine, who shone in primary and ever since has stuck two metaphorical fingers up at me, the education system, and the world, and for whom my hopes have now been whittled down from imagining an amazing career for her to simply wanting her not to be excluded from school, not to get into trouble with the law, and her staying un-pregnant until she's 18.

[cory]

On a more positive note, if I had money to spare this is what I'd do:

i) spend substantial sums on an interesting and educational home environment - this would include books and trips to the theatre for me and interesting outings for dhas well as quality children's books and toys. If I had an instrument I would play it, if I had an outside hobby I would cultivate it.

I would be working on the assumption that a household where everybody enjoyed learning would be likely to provide the best intellectual environment.

ii) look round for a generally all-round excellent primary school.

I would not primarily be thinking about private or state here: I would look at individual schools. The school I would hope to find would be well run by a head I trusted, the discipline would be good without being stifling, the children would look as if they genuinely enjoyed learning and enjoyed being busy, the school would be good at communicating with parents and their pastoral care system would be thought-out and practical.

iii) introduce dc to a range of possible hobbies and interests to stimulate their minds and stretch them sideways.

I would set particular store by activities that require a certain amount of discipline- such as learning an instrument or ballet dancing or studying a foreign language- but which also have a social and/or imaginative aspect. I would make sure there was enough on offer to let dc find something s/he enjoyed as an individual.

iv) keep money aside in case dc eventually showed a specific or unusual talent beyond what the school could supply.

To be able to say at a later date, "yes I can see that you need to work at a much higher level and the money's there for that: you can have lessons from the maestro or the Olympic coach or whatever"; "yes, you can spend the summer in a Russian family to become really fluent in Russian", "yes you can take part in the residential biology course".

v) make interesting trips and outings as a family

Shared memories and active holidays can be a great way of encouraging learning.

vi) when it came to secondaries/Sixth form I would discuss the choice very clearly with the dc and make sure our choice answered to their dreams and interests as well as my natural desire for overall academic quality.

No, dc, you can't decide all on your own to go to lax-standard school because you like their uniform, but equally I can't decide all on my own that you are not to go to the school with the extended science programme because I have already decided you are going to study economics.

vii) keep money aside for educational travel/interviews/auditions/summer programmes/unusual work experience/university visits etc at secondary/Sixth Form level.

This, I find, is where it becomes both expensive and important.

viii) I would then ideally have a substantial sum of money to help them start in the world, but I would be very flexible about how it is spent.

One dc might need help with paying for university accommodation/books/food, another dc might decide to start a business (two close relatives of mine have done this instead of going to uni and have both been very successful), a third may need to travel to perfect skills before uni, a fourth may need a deposit on a flat, a fifth may need private education that comes more expensive than even university.

[cory]

This is how it panned out in our family of four (parents academic, one parent very musical and with musical ambitions for her children):

i) eldest child turned out to be less academically gifted than expected. He struggled and was very unhappy with parental expectations for many years but eventually found his own path through a manual job which enabled him to work his way up. He is now comfortably off and happy in a career his parents would never have thought of and which could not have been accessed through the education they had in mind for him. But his self esteem is not the best.

The money that turned out to be useful here was partly shared family memories (always good) and partly money for practical stuff like deposit on house.

ii) second child turned out to be academically gifted and interested in pretty well the ways expected.

Money spent on extra-curricular learning and residentials was welcome and useful for future career. Though to be fair, future career has not been particularly glamorous or remunerative.

iii) third child both musically and academically gifted. Worked hard on musical career, showed talent, and then suddenly had to give up due to unsuspected minor disability.

He wouldn't say that money was wasted- but it didn't lead to the expected result either. Money spent on his academic development (foreign language trips) came in handy for a Plan B.

iv) left university after one term and set up own business in a field parents would never have thought of. Easily the most successful family member from a financial pov and as far as I know happy with his choices.

The money that came in handy was not money that was spent on his formal education/musical instruments etc but money he was able to make by selling said items to buy what he realised was important instead. But again- shared family memories no doubt of lasting value.

[wordfactory]

OP, you were alwaysbound to get a hard time here on MN .

The accepted orthodoxy here is that DC should be left to find their own way, that parents should want nothig more than their offspring to be happy.

It is a rather delicious mixture of hypocrisy, arrogance and complacancy .

However in RL, (and here on MN) there are plenty of parents who plan consciously for their DC's future. This does not mean we map it out, but that we ensure that every opportunity is given to our DC and that every door remains invitingly wide open.

It's all about ensuring your DC have choices. Meaningful choices.

[mirtzapine]

Thank you cory for that well though-out and written piece. Much of what you said as guideline plan, is what we are already doing. If the dd's turn out the way yours have done I'd be more than content and happy.

My secret hope is that they would have the entrepreneurial flair that I never had and the gumption to make it happen. Or that they are open minded and enquiring with the aim that they get the grounding necessary to make the world their oyster. Both of those aspects, I think, would benefit from a bloody good education which would be an aid on their chosen paths.

wordfactory, I didn't think I'd got a particularly hard time, there was the odd pointless bitchy comment which says more about the poster, than anything. There were many valid points, I feel that my OP was taken more literally than I expected. It was only intended to express a concept, an idealization, a notion that over time as a parent I would have certain responsibilities and duties to perform, in regards to my children. Provisioning for education being one of them. Just in the same way I could take the data for the national shopping basket and cost of living increases over the past 25 years and map them, linearly, over the next 25 years. If I stuck to that plan I'd probably starve my family to death within three years.