Is banning private schools a workable solution?

[APMF]

Whenever the conversation turns to bias in favour of privately educated people there are always voices that shouts out - ban private schools!

Is this a badly thought out knee jerk reaction or am I missing something?

IMO if private schools were to be banned the following would happen.

a) the rich would educate their kids abroad. Aged 18 those kids will be back to grab those coveted uni places and, on graduating, the top jobs. So no change there.

b) some will choose to buy up the properties around the highly regarded state schools. Thus driving up prices and nudging aside your untutored DC which is what is happening in parts of London

c) Some will take the fees saved and hire tutors in order to give their dcs an advantage.

d) x thousands of kids will rejoin the state system thus busting an already over stretched system. Tax increases for everybody to pay for the extra resources and if you thought that it was hard getting into your over subscribed comp at the moment ......

As I said above, is banning private schools a badly thought out solution or am I missing something?

[TalkinPeace2]

A question.

Name me the country (anywhere in the world) that does not have private (fee paying) schools?

[iyatoda]

Rabbit I mean the electorates not the ruling class. Yes we only hear about such stories here (The Mbeki debacle) so I don't blame you.

Anyway carry on with your debate.

[exexpat]

Most countries have private schools running alongside state schools, but the UK seems to be unique in the way private schooling is associated with wealth/social class and also higher academic standards. In Japan, for example, even state-run high schools charge fees; getting into high school is competitive, and the most prestigious schools are actually

[rabbitstew]

I would rather the tax payer were willing to pay for everyone to be adequately educated, rather than breathing a sigh of relief that that's a few less people to bother about - because they don't allow for those people left to get MORE money spent on them per pupil, they just reduce the amount spent on education altogether. Perhaps if we worked out how many children there actually are in the country to be educated and allocated a certain amount/year to each child, but when a child opted out of the state and went private instead, kept their allocation to be used specifically for those who were left in state education and thus redistributed it amongst those who were left, then I would thank the private school fee payer, but not otherwise.

[FestiveFrollockingFrenzy]

Agree wild strawberry

[FestiveFrollockingFrenzy]

Rabbit, wake up... We can't afford it... We are up shit creak. Lovely idea but not feasible... Unless the country gets really rich and I should think that will be through contribution from people who already have wealth or good education. It's a catch 22.

[TalkinPeace2]

the UK seems to be unique in the way private schooling is associated with wealth/social class
really?
so the preppies from the USA
or the Chinese communists sending their kids overseas to school (often under pseudonyms)
do not count?
Or the Indian and African mimics of boarding schools?

The UK is by no means alone or unique

[rabbitstew]

I didn't say we should afford anything, Festive???... I just said I'm not thanking people who pay private school fees unless and until their opting out of state education doesn't actually result in less money going to state education.

[FestiveFrollockingFrenzy]

Plus the current government are not keen on redistribution of wealth, prefer to abuse their power and make themselves richer.

[exexpat]

(sorry, pressed send too soon) the most prestigious high schools are actually state ones - the competition to get (and consequently the perceived higher academic standards) matter far more than how much you pay in fees.

Playing devil's advocate here, I think if grammar schools were reintroduced more widely in the UK, people would probably desert private schools in droves. But most people who oppose private schools also seem to oppose grammar schools or selection. The comprehensive system is somehow seen as the only answer - but other countries manage to incorporate more variety and choice into their education systems without creating the huge social divisions that exist n the UK.

Why don't we look at better-functioning education systems in other countries and see what might work best, rather than just getting angry at places like Eton?

[NaturallyGullible]

TBH, rabbit, I would rather the money the council/LEA saves by not educating my children went to dementia care rather than education. But we don't have hypothecated taxes.

[rabbitstew]

The UK started it - everywhere else mimics what we sold to the world along with our Empire. Even to the extent of sending their kids over here to get a bit of it.

[iyatoda]

Great post strawberry. Ethos for ALL is definitely key here.

[FestiveFrollockingFrenzy]

I didn't understand your last post rabbit? It doesn't reduce the amount allocated any more than otherwise?

[breatheslowly]

Rabbitstew - yes, I see your point, the savings on state spending don't stay in education, but if you assume that government income won't change if you ban state schools then banning state schools will require further state expenditure on education and that money has to come from somewhere. I think that in terms of the original question, banning private schools isn't workable as we just don't have the extra £3bn available to state educate those pupils.

[wildstrawberryplace]

TalkinPeace2 - those are countries which do not have a decent education system, just like us (with the possible exception of China I think).

In places like Japan, Europe, Canada, Australia etc, the most prestigious schools are state schools.

[rabbitstew]

NaturallyGullible - exactly. You cannot argue that opting out of state education is doing users of state education a favour, because we don't have hypothecated taxes. You don't know who you are doing a favour - you are just paying a tax bill which gets divvied up in unknown ways by faceless people.

[AfterEightMintyy]

Festive - what is your non-seasonal posting name?

[TalkinPeace2]

Geelong was not State last time I looked
nor are the finishing schools in Switzerland
nor are the semi private ones in France like the one Bonsoir is currently applying for
not are schools like Andover and Exeter and the Hill in the USA

private, elite schools are everywhere

[wildstrawberryplace]

Although I do agree you will always get a minority who want private schooling for their children for reasons of social snobbery alone. I do not care about that - let them do it.

[FestiveFrollockingFrenzy]

It's not Xenia :)

[rabbitstew]

Festive - my point is, if fewer people use state education, it just means less money is spent on state education, not that all of a sudden, there is more money to spend on less people. In other words, it doesn't benefit state education that less money is being spent on it, it just makes the taxpayer think his or her money is going further than it actually is.

[FestiveFrollockingFrenzy]

We haven't crossed paths rabbit :)

[exexpat]

I don't know all the individual schools talkinpeace2 just mentioned, but I think in other countries there is a different between socially elite (very expensive) schools and academically elite schools. In the UK, with a few exceptions, they are the same thing. I definitely agree that academic excellence should not be reserved for those who can pay for it; that is the way it mostly works in the UK at the moment, but it doesn't have to be.

[AfterEightMintyy]

Ok, its not Xenia. Would you be prepared to pm me another clue?