5-yr-old scrapes GCSE maths

[Ponders]

\link{http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8721603/Six-year-old-girl-passes-maths-GCSE.html(she was 5 when she took it)}

'she takes extra lessons on Saturdays and is not allowed to watch television after school from Monday to Thursday so that she concentrates on her studies.
Her father Charles Thorpe, 44, from Chadwell Heath, east London, said: ''We thought we might as well just give it a go. You see young people in the newspapers who have taken exams and you think, why not?
''I wouldn't say maths is her favourite subject, but when she says she wants to be a doctor I tell her that she must be very good at science and maths.
'' We want her to be outstanding and exceptional in every way .'' '

no pressure then

twat

[iggly2]

Arran actually took GCSE maths at 5 and got the lowest pass mark required as well! He then retook it at 7 or 8. I have problems with how ALL the children mentioned were intensely coached. Ruth has an unusual life married to someone her father's age. Near enough estranged from the father who was with her almost continuously! In past interviews she has made references to not wanting her children to be taught like her.
I know lots of medical doctors they certainly are NOT geniuses ( FAR from it).

[kipperandtiger]

Just seen the video clip - well, clearly she looks very chuffed, but I'd still say that what she needs to do at 5 is to learn to get on with lots of different people, and take up a second (or even third) language and find a sport and a hobby she enjoys. Proficiency at several languages always gets brownie points in medical school and in the NHS as it shows wide ranging ability - and it saves the taxpayer money in interpreter services - it's true, though.

[mrz]

I think you've identified the difference Ruth Lawrence and Arran Fernander appear to have had outstanding natural ability which was nurtured but not to the exclusion of everything else

[kipperandtiger]

Oh dear, that poor Sufiah - she needed supportive parenting, not that kind of boot camp? (Studying in a cold house aiding concentration? Rubbish.) But Ruth Lawrence in contrast did appear to enjoy her maths a lot and when interviewed as an undergraduate, happily responded that she was looking forward to getting a doctorate as her next goal. She's now an academic at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, married with four children. I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with children attempting GCSEs as long as they enjoy the subject and are the ones who want to do it and not the pushy parent making them.
That said, I think her dad is on the wrong track - doctors should not be prodigies (generally) but normal people who are intelligent (not extraordinarily brainy), above all extremely hard working, compassionate and understanding. It is quite hard to empathise with patients if you haven't lived a normal life. I don't think she'll miss anything by not watching tv for four days, but if he does want to encourage her in her goals, he should be letting her play with other children (learning to get on with others), take up a sport or hobby like music/dance/art, and encouraging her to learn a second language, which is what medical schools will look for. Doing GCSEs at 15+ / 16 is enough, and there really isn't anything to be gained by trying to do them much earlier. Medical school will not be terribly impressed by an E at 5, but will be impressed if she has done volunteering or done well in one or some of those above hobbies. And any reasonably intelligent child who works hard enough will pick up the maths and science quite easily in his or her teens.
Why shouldn't doctors be prodigies, you ask. Well, a very small number are, but generally prodigies and geniuses find the whole practice of medicine very disheartening - you have to follow orders 99% of the time when you start out in the first few years, even if you "know better" (and really do, in many instances!) than your bosses....it's almost a little like the army in terms of the team structure and ethos. There's also a huge amount of memorising for about 95% of the course, which again many geniuses find tedious and uninspiring. And most people you work with and meet in the profession are not going to be fellow geniuses, far from it - just normal people with problems and in a vulnerable position, who need your help. Many geniuses I knew had to switch courses to do pure science because they eventually realised this, and many didn't even gain a place because of this. They had to be counselled that it wasn't a failure not to be able to make it in this particular profession, but that it was better to channel their gifts into a path that would fulfil them more.

[iggly2]

life=live

I need to read through the rubbish I post sometimes!

[iggly2]

Anyone willing to give up there careers to HE to life through their child is a little . Or maybe I was not hit with the maternal fairy dust to enable me to spend 24/7 with ds everyday without going spare.

[ripstheirthroatoutliveupstairs]

Sorry to have caused confusion, I was talking about Ruth Lawrence.

[iggly2]

Sorry typo"refers"

[iggly2]

Above post referes to Sufiah Yusof

[iggly2]

Her father pleaded guilty to assulting two 15 year old girls he tutored. He also had prison spells for mortgage fraud.

[mrz]

No Ruth Lawrence was the youngest child to gain entry to Oxford she achieved a first at the age of 13
news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/4/newsid_2492000/2492853.stm

[ripstheirthroatoutliveupstairs]

whenIget, DH was at college at the same time as her. He said she was odd and her father very controlling.

[whenIgetto3]

the girl who was the youngest to gain entry to Oxford (I think) turned into a prostitute here

[mrz]

The little boy who is the youngest child to gain a GCSE and is just off to Cambridge said at the time he wanted to be a bus driver

[ASByatt]

Sorry to lower to tone a bit there!

[ASByatt]

One wonders what her dad will say when she decides that she actually would prefer to be a magical fairy princess when she grows up. Or maybe somone that drives really big lorries.

(Both of these were careers considered by my DD when she was 5/6)

[mrz]

Over the last few years there have been numerous pieces of research published and the last government published guidance Raising the Achievement of Minority Ethnic Pupils - www.teachfind.com/national-strategies/ethnic-minority-achievement-ema-raising-black-pupil-attainment-mathematics-throu [[http://www.teachfind.com/national-strategies/ethnic-minority-achievement-ema-raising-black-pupil-attainment-mathematics-throu A focus on provision for Black children in
the Early Years Foundation Stage]] and many more

[NotJustKangaskhan]

Bonsoir is talking about the news talking about black underachieving, which happens every year around result time. This year they have the extra fuel of the riots (as the only group that does statistically worse than black boys is white boys from the lowest socio-economic background so it's a two for one special). Every year the media goes on about the race/income gaps in results, what it means, what causes it, and what can be done for a few weeks max, then goes back to ignoring these groups until something bad happens. It's a yearly cycle that ticks a lot of people off because it's all talk and showing how bad these groups are (bootstraps), but no action or really looking at these groups beyond the stats.

[MollieO]

If Bonsoir was talking about the riots then she seems to have turned into David Starkey. Racist and completely inaccurate comment to say the riots were done by black people. Look at Manchester and look at lots of those in London. They seem very very pale indeed.

[Clary]

Well I honestly think my 10yo could get a C grade at Maths GCSE right now, with no extra coaching.

I think a reasonably able-at-maths junior-school child could. I think it is pretty easy (sample qu from June's foundation paper: Tom thinks of a number. It is an odd number between 10 and 20 which is a multiple of 5. What is the number?)

So basically what I am saying is that this child getting E after lots of extra coaching is not that remarkable - except the fact that she's done it at all. Why???? All that extra work, bless her she doesn't need that at 5yo.

[princessglitter]

I think it would not be possible for a child of that age to have the emotional maturity to cope with a subject like English or History. Maths could possibly be taught by this cramming method - but fail to see the benefit really, unless the child is truly gifted.

[LynetteScavo]

I presumed Bonsoir was referring to the riots.

But from what I understand black children, especially boys, underachieve academically. You can probably Google it for yourself.

So what are you going to do about that then, Mr Cameron?

[iggly2]

Oh.... just noticed the link about Esther Okade was last year. It stated she would take her A-level math this year and if she passed it she would get a place at Cambridge. Interestingly no big announcement has been made about her getting an A level and nowhere is she quoted as being the youngest to get to Cambridge at 7 years old!

[MollieO]

Where are the stories this month about 'black underachievement'? Bonsoir could you do a link?

[mrz]

Sorry iggly the report I linked to is about a boy called Arran Fernander who is the youngest child to pass a GCSE. Now ten years later he is off to Cambridge having met the conditional offer made when he was 14 (he's also written a book about Shakespeare ) it sort of backs your argument that she wouldn't get an offer on the back of a E grade GCSE