Reaching

[Minionmomma]

I recently posted for advice on reaching a settlement re finances without going to court. Received some great advice. Thank you.

I was hoping to hear from people who remained amicable with their exes and reached agreements re childcare and finances without going through mediation or to court.

In brief, together nearly 2 decades, married 5-6 years, 2 children in primary school. Both working FT, paying into pensions for at least 15 years. Husband earns significantly more than me and also inheritance a sum of money following death of a parent earlier this year. We jointly own a house with a mortgage. Significant capital in the property.

I understand the general starting point for division of assets is 50/50. I also understand that husband’s inheritance may/may not be considered a marital asset. However with this inheritance he would be in a position to buy me out at 50/50 split (possibly a slightly higher proportion for me). I would not be able to buy him out at 50/50 split.

At this stage husband is stating he wishes to split childcare 50/50 which is interesting given his excessive working hours (partly the reason for the breakdown of our marriage but I get that’s irrelevant). He has suggested 50/50 split of equity on house. Inheritance is in his words ‘off limits’ but he is willing to pay some maintenance given that I earn significantly less.

I am hoping to keep things amicable and I’d like to be able to move on as quickly as possible.

Is my husband’s suggestion reasonable? It seems so to me on the face of things. I’d be able to buy a smaller house but one that would accommodate me and the children. And I envisage that I would be able to get by really. However lots of people keep advising me to make sure I get what I’m entitled, don’t agree to anything yet, see a solicitor, consider the longer term, the likelihood that I’ll be doing most of the childcare etc.

Is this really necessary..? I can’t be bothered with the drama but I’m worried that I’m going to do me and my children a disservice...

[Techway]

Has your Ex stepped up to 50% when married? If so why would he change now?

In my situation Ex insisted on a court order for contact, insisting on 50% of holidays, which I was totally fine with however he never achieves anything like that as work or new gf is a priority. He now generally has 1 night eow and he definitely won't step up to sickness days.
It is for this reason that you have to recognise you are most likely to be the main carer.. if he didn't do it whilst married he won't post separation.

A judge will have to sign off a consent order, even if agreed mutually and a statement of assets needs to be shown. This will have to include pensions, savings etc and it must appear to be fair, otherwise it will or else it be bounced.

[nearlynermal]

OP, just to reinforce pp's comments about pension pots. Just make sure you know the exact values there. For example, the current value of a defined benefit pension can be a huge multiple of the future number. Not saying you should take him to the cleaners, but be a good friend to your future self 20 years down the line and don't leave a lot of money on the table. Circumstances, health etc. can change.

[GrumpiestCat]

There have been other threads about 50/50. Whilst absolutely no one disputes the importance of children having a good relationship with each parent, it can be less disruptive to children to have a main stable home so something other than 50/50. It'll depend on your circs obv. It's equal on paper but you need to think about what it will mean for the kids in practice. Might be ideal, might be less than ideal.

[FinallyHere]

I’m unsure how they are considered as part of division of assets...

As part of your disclosure of assets.

Really important for you to make sure that all assists are honestly declared so that the division is fair. Don't let yourself be deflected for the sake of any easy life. Imagine how you would advise a friend or daughter in this position

We know he is clued up because he is suggesting 50:50 childcare when he works long hours. It sounds as if you are already accepting that he will not pay you child maintenance but expect you to do more than your 50%. No matter what went wrong in your marriage, here is a chance to get some fairness.

Make sure you have proper legal advice. Then try mediation and if you can agree then get the court to rubber stamp the agreement. They will not do this unless they think the division is fair. It also means that you have some comeback if he doesn't keep to his side of the bargain.

Take strength from MN, for yourself and your DC. Your life is going to be better from now on.

[IsItBetter]

Hello Minionmomma, I'm a dad and wanted to give my opinion.

I have a son and share childcare 50:50 with my ex. This was achieved via a lot of very hostile child court hearings and a contested final hearing, it's so lovely to see you facilitating contact like this and wanting to proceed amicably. You would be well placed to ignore many of the comments on here - there are a lot of bitter people around.

Regarding finances, in my opinion you need to have a true picture of all your joint assets before you can proceed. This includes all assets including pensions and all liabilities. You should look to have a clean break (no spousal maintenance, a higher proportion of marital assets for you in lieu of a lower wage) if at all possible. It will enable you both to move on with your lives with the least possible friction and co-dependency. It reduces the potential for animosity, any dependency on him, and less chance of skullduggery in the future.

Once you have all assets at hand, I would book a consultation with a solicitor to check what is a "fair" split in your situation and agree via mediation.

Cheers and good luck

[Minionmomma]

Thank you all. I really value all of your advice. This forum has been so helpful for me. Separation is a bit lonely 🤣

[Quartz2208]

Yes proper legal advice here is needed and no 50/50 on anything and get it all down and legally agreed

[Ilovetolurk]

II just want to move on quickly, without any fighting and remain on good terms for our children*

We all do but you are a long time divorced. For the sake of goodwill now you could really regret not taking advice

Pull together a sheet of all the assets including pension valuations and see a solicitor

[Dropthedeaddonkey]

You need to see the pension info at very least see the last year annual update for each of you. Think of 50:50 on basis of each of you sharing the childcare when both of you work full time. That means him picking up from school or paying after school club 2-3 days a week and doing 50% school holidays, sick days etc. He can argue 50% is picking them up in evening and bringing them back early morning but that means your work is compromised and his is not. So you need to be smart about making sure you are not picking up all the childcare and if he wants 50% that means him picking up from school and dropping off the next day. Even not knowing the pension etc given different wages during marriage and his better financial situation you could ask for 60-70% for a clean break and to leave his pension alone. Trouble with spousal maintenance is if he lost his job then he could get that reduced. I would start by getting him to pick the kids up from school on his days and split Xmas holiday 50:50 days and nights not just evenings and see how long 50% lasts. Teenagers cost a lot more than primary age and often don’t want to shuttle back and forth in this way. I think the inheritance should be left out of it but the starting point for the one whose income is restricted by school hours or is paying childcare and who is giving up a claim on pension should be 60% if not higher.

[KnickerBockerAndrew]

I have been in a very very similar position to you, and I know what it's like. Even though your relationship is over, the dynamics have not changed- he's still calling the shots, you're still responsible for keeping things amicable (which basically means not pissing him off.)

I waited 6 years before divorce (am still not there yet), and in the end I had to realise that, because of our relationship dynamic, I wasn't in a position to decide what was best for me and DC. I got a solicitor I liked and explained all this to her- basically "I want everything to be done fairly but I do need you to make sure I'm not being taken advantage of."

It's so hard. Good luck OP!

[Minionmomma]

@RandomMess he actually wanted 3 nights a week plus alt weekends. He did the children out too. It was me that said no to the three nights. He’s only staying at his parents house because it’s free and during which he’s clearing his deceased parents house testy to move into which will also be rent free, albeit a 45 mins drive away. I do think that makes sense instead of spending goodness knows how much on rent. And it’s meant that we can live separately which was so needed. He honestly isn’t a bad dad. I cannot say that enough. He was just a shitty husband.

[RandomMess]

But he hasn't prioritised tenting nearby so he cans do 50:50 has he?

He doesn't take them out for tea, no you have to go out..,

Take your blinkers off! He isn't thinking of you in this only himself.

[Minionmomma]

I’m not certain there isn’t someone else. And in all honesty what does it change? Our marriage is broken either way and we have two children to co-parent. My feelings of anger/resentment aren’t going to get me anywhere if I dwell in things. He is a fantastic dad and his children are a priority to him. It’s just that I was not. I accept that and I want to move on.

[oldfatandtired1]

minionmomma I completely understand you don’t want to draw it out. And I do know it’s tough. But you have to fight for a fair share of assets for you and your children so you can get on with your life. I hope your STBX does take care of the children - but in case he doesn’t you have to fight for what you are entitled to. I got 90% house equity and a pension share in return for a clean break (kids were over 18) as ex earned 4x my salary and could get a decent mortgage, I couldn’t. Do I think I took him to the cleaners? Absolutely not. I got a fair settlement which the judge was happy with.

[RandomMess]

And there you have it...

Base assets on what is happening now not some mythical promise of the future!

[Minionmomma]

Twice a week he’s been collecting the children and coming to the house and spending the evening with them. I’ve stayed out. He’s had them all weekend too. So twice a week and alternate weekends which isn’t 50/50 but he’s staying 45 mins drive away at his other parent’s house whilst they are away.

[RandomMess]

How long until he spending money on a much younger girlfriend and he doesn't have time to see the DC as much?

[RandomMess]

So he's currently doing 50:50 with the DC is he?

[Minionmomma]

@oldfatandtired and @grumpiestcat thank you too for your advice. I will seek legal advice before agreeing a split of assets. Friends have also said the same re how things can change when another partner and/or child come into the picture. I do bear that in mind. I think in part I just do not want to fight or draw this out. I feel like I am in limbo and that I cannot move on with my life. Meanwhile he’s moved out and walks around with a smile on his face and a bounce in his step. It’s tough.

[oldfatandtired1]

Agreed RandomMess. OP - you’re just not listening. People are trying to help - and many of us have been there, got the T-shirt - you MUST see a good solicitor and get advice. Do not sell yourself short. “Never in a million years would he not take responsibility for our children?” Maybe if he meets someone else and starts another family, I’m seeing that right now with a work friend.

[Minionmomma]

@RandomMess I’m sorry if it seems like that. I really do appreciate everyone’s advice. The general consensus seems that I should seek legal advice and perhaps have a have a higher starting point for the division of assets in my favour. I just want to move on quickly, without any fighting and remain on good terms for our children. I can be financially independent with or without him. I have seen posts where others have managed similar and I was hoping to hear some other perspectives too...

[GrumpiestCat]

Get a solicitor. Honestly it's so easy to be spivved out of what you're entitled to when incomes are very different. I had my eyes thoroughly opened when mine gently pointed out how much worse off I was post separation and how much better off he was and how that wasn't fair. We had been "amicable".

[RandomMess]

Head brick wall

[Minionmomma]

The point is this - even without maintenance I can get by. I appreciate there’s a chance he could meet someone else and have another child but never in a million years would he not take financial responsibility for our children. Hand in heart I know he adores them. Which is why he wants 50/50.

[oldfatandtired1]

Glad to hear he’s offering maintenance - but what if he loses his job and can’t pay? What if he just decides to be an arse and you have to fight for it every month? He may be nice and amicable now but things can change very quickly. I’d be inclined to try for a clean break (he’ll have to pay child maintenance though) as its easier to get on with your life. But you must have full disclosure of everything that’s in the pot.