Divorce settlement, legal entitlement vs moral entitlement

[RockPaperCut]

I have huge amounts of guilt over receiving money from stbxh. In my mind it is still very much his and he's been very good throughout the relationship of enforcing that idea. I had to ask for money, for items for the children, I often went without because I felt humiliated having to ask for xyz etc. You get the idea.

On one hand my solicitor is advising that every asset is included into the marrital pot, including a fairly substantial inheritance as the money was pooled within the marriage. He of course wants to reduce his liability as much as possible towards the dc and I.

So the question is would you go for half of everything or settle for far less, quickly, have lesser standard of living, barely managing to make ends meet whilst he keeps his lifestyle, assets etc.

[InDeNile]

Obviously he is using the language of what he "thinks it's adequate to give you", but be careful that you avoid doing the same...

IMO he isn't "giving" you anything, you are both discussing how to divide your joint marital assets (the whole £1.6m pot) between you. If you think of it like that there is absolutely no reason why HE would get to decide what is "adequate"! And why should "adequate" be the benchmark anyway? It certainly isn't in law, it's a starting point of 50/50.

I would be going for 50% absolute MINIMUM, so £0.8m...and if the DC are with you more than half the time, AND you have diminished earning capacity in the future due to years of childcare, I believe you would have a good chance of getting more than 50%, as I'm sure your SHL will be advising. Good luck, he sounds like a piece of work.

[Startoftheyear2017]

I'm going through this. Hard to remain detached when in mediation but someone told me that I should be in the mindset that I'm in the meeting as the representative of my kids. I'm doing a deal for them. I actually visualised them in the room a couple of times! Helped keep me a bit calmer when things got heated.
Good luck!

[43percentburnt]

If 450 is adequate then why doesn't he give you 1.15?

I promise you it will be you funding driving lessons, weddings, university, gap years. Greedy dad won't.

Take every penny you are legally entitled to. He will say you are greedy and money grabbing if you take 300 or 1.6. So take your legal entitlement.

[RockPaperCut]

Thankfully for me, not in Scotland. In my case funds were pooled at various points to purchase property. So unfortunately he wouldn't be able to use that argument. But we shall see how things turn out.

[worridmum]

Are you in Scotland if so inheritance doesn't count as family pot so not entitled to half if not go for the very least 50%

[BigNsmall16]

Well said!!

[nigelsbigface]

Hopefully he'll calm Dow and grow up once he's got over his ego having been dented.Its just another way to assert his perceived power over you unfortunately.

[RockPaperCut]

Yes they did nigel, although 2 hours late, tired, dirty and unfed. I guess this is what the future holds so I may as well get used to it.

[nigelsbigface]

Did the dc get back ok?

[longingforalife]

It feels endlessly stressful - I so get that!

Hope everything is ok

[RockPaperCut]

Yes he has been fairly childish. It may have something to do with MIL never cutting the apron strings or being allowed to take responsibility for any negative behaviour.

Anyway, I've just got home to an empty house and I'm getting a little worried. It was his weekend, we had both agreed that dc should be home by 5ish so that they can wind down in time for tea, bath and bed. He doesn't often stick to this agreement but this is unusually late, especially with school in the morning.

[nigelsbigface]

That's good op-was he always that childish? Storming out because he didn't get his way-absurd behaviour.
Glad it went well

[tomatoplantproject]

Yay - go you!

Sounds like you are starting to get the measure him. Let the anger and outrage at his excessiveness drive you to getting yourself (and your children) the best possible outcome.

[RockPaperCut]

So our mediation this morning I finally received his massively overinflated expense schedule. His anticipated his food costs are more than what I currently spend on all four of us. I was on fire, I stood my ground when he continued to assert that 450 was sufficient. I told him I wanted a majority share, explained my reasoning and that a court would likely grant it, to which he couldn't argue with really. The mediator remained silent throughout, then he stormed off and left midst session. He tried to discredit my SHL's advice because he's clearly looking out for my interests - yeah like your SHL is looking after your interests. It's really rattled him that I've changed solicitors (still the same firm though) just from female to male. Not that it makes a difference on the outcome.

I just can't get my head round his reasoning, he would rather see our dc live on benefits Monday to Friday, whilst spending weekends with him in 5 star hotels.

[nigelsbigface]

Also-my h was also of the opinion that I didn't deserve what I was asking for. In fact he told several of our friends that I was trying to take all his money and still says that...made me feel bloody awful.But I figured better me feel awful and maybe have people judge me harshly (not that they are great friends if they do tbh) than be struggling financially for the rest of my life and have the effects of that pass on to the dd's.
And yes to getting it sorted before divorce-essential.Afterwards you'd have no chance.

[nigelsbigface]

Well he's probably in for a bit of a surprise there then I would have thought. I was told by two separate solicitors (my own who deals with 'normal' divorces like mine and a friend of a friend who is a solicitor in big money celebrity type divorces) that spousal maintenance is exponential-unlike child maintenance for which there is a formula below which there isn't much arguing (but which can be argued up depending on circumstances), spousal maintenance can be awarded in sums between not much at all and massive amounts-depending on the situations of the two parties, potential to earn in future etc etc.From what you have said you seem to be within your rights to request some spousal maintenance and would be likely to get it.
I found mediation very stressful. My h went into full work mode-he is very senior and obviously good at what he does or he wouldn't have got as far as he has-good at managing people and situations in a way that I am not-I work in a very different profession where it's more important to have empathy and listen. That showed up in the mediation but fortunately the mediator seemed wise to it and made sure I had chance to speak and called him out when he was not being factual/being bullish etc.
Good luck for yours.

[RockPaperCut]

We are in the process of mediating. We've had 6 sessions to date, with another double session tomorrow. I have a feeling the negotiations will fail, as so far he doesn't see that he has a legal obligation to continue supporting me/us after separation and divorce. He's very much in the frame of mind that, I'm a goldigger taking his money as opposed to him adequately providing for the dc.

The issue is, after divorce I would be in a weaker position to argue for him to make large purchases for the dc. He's backtracked multiple times over school fees, even though his earnings and assets would prevent dc from being eligible for a bursary. I don't trust that he will keep to his word. I want it all sorted before hand, so that it's all written within the consent order and we all know where we stand. I simply won't have the means to go back to court at a later date.

[nigelsbigface]

Have you done mediation?
Although again in my case it failed as h 'didn't rate' the skills of the mediator (i.e. She didn't agree with everything he said and he didn't like the process as he wasn't able to charm her like he does most other people).
We eventually worked out our agreement between ourselves after I took advice from the solicitor about what was reasonable to ask for.(I still asked for less than that advised but far more that what h initially proposed and thought was reasonable). It was a horrible process and I still feel guilty despite asking for less than what I could have (according to legal precedence)-it still felt grabby. But you have to think of your future and that of the kids.
H also reasoned that he would be able to afford to buy them anything big they needed (in the case of his Initial proposal)so they wouldn't miss out.That was true and he would have done-in his case I don't doubt it.But that would be unfair on me always being the 'poor parent' to his Disney dad when we both worked hard to achieve what we did jointly in the marriage.

[tomatoplantproject]

I didn't make it to court but I understand the starting point of court is 50/50. For any marriage that is over 5 years and with 50/50 residency then unless he can successfully argue otherwise you will be awarded this.

He should therefore be doing everything to keep this out of court and begging you to take a settlement. I would let it all run its course and let it go to court if I were you. I would also be leaning on my solicitor and taking his/her advice, and if you don't trust that advice find another one.

[RockPaperCut]

He is an arse that's for sure. His reasoning...if I allowed him 50/50 shared care then dc's needs would be met by him. He forgets that he would still need to provide adequate housing for the time dc spent with me. He is a tool.

I would leave discussions to our respective solicitors but he/they have refused to respond because he doesn't want to run up legal costs. He wants complete control of the process but time is running out, without an agreement we're heading to court. He's now backtracked on school fees, again ffs. I'm so flipping tired of fighting for the dc needs to be met. I hate him with every bone in my body. You're all right, it's better it's dealt with now than having to go cap in hand asking for money later.

[nigelsbigface]

Yes I was told quite often what my stbexh thought was adequate.
And I was also accepting of that at first.
But I'm glad I looked into it further as a result of some fairly hefty lies I discovered he had told about something else- as what I was going to agree to would have left me in an awful financial position.
My advice would be to try and take emotion out of it.Think about the rest of your life and those of your kids and of what you have put in to the marriage.You are entitled to half and that's what you should stick to.

[tomatoplantproject]

If he is due to come into another lump of money next year then he can well afford for you to have half of the family assets now.

So you and your children can be properly housed
So you can retrain and have the ability to take on a better paid job in the long term
So you are not dependent on the state
So your children don't have to grow up going from luxury to poverty when they switch between parents.

Can you look upon the inherited money as lucky money rather than earned? He was lucky he was born into a wealthy family, and you in turn have a bit of fortune in that you can benefit from that luck. He didn't create anything, he didn't work backbreaking long hours, he hasn't built up a business which employs many others.

[JaxingJump]

Stay away from him. This is a business transaction.

I think it's disgusting he's not willing to give you half of what will leave him with a lot of money, and the capacity to earn lots more and another big inheritance coming his way. It's his children he's taking it away from.

Please do this right, for your kids sake.

[LadyMonicaBaddingham]

Talk only via your solicitors regarding any financial settlement. Don't muddy the waters, only allow your STBEXH to attempt to do so... This money is for YOUR CHILDREN. Always remember that...

[RockPaperCut]

Probably stupid of me, but I've just given him a heads up on what the solicitor has advised and he is not happy. He's still harping on about 450k being more than adequate.