Right to return to marital home with children

[meld96]

Hi. I'm a new member to the site and wondered if anyone had any experience of or could advise on the following situation. I left my husband in May this year after he threatened me with throwing my stuff out and forcing me to leave the family home. I decided to take my stuff and the children's things (they're 6 and 9) and go and stay with my Mum as I was scared of what would happen if I decided to stay with my Ex. I started divorce proceedings which he is contesting, I tried to get the children to see him and he instead used it as a chance to argue with me and emotionally blackmail them - they have stopped wanting to see him. He is taking me to court for child arrangements and we've had a fact finding hearing - the court found in my favour and as FACT that he had emotionally abused me, used coercive control and physical intimidation against me and to a lesser extent our children. I have tried every which way since May to get a home sorted for me and the children as living squished in at my Mum's with her and her fella is becoming untenable and putting a lot of strain on all our relationships. Im actually becoming pretty depressed at being unable to sort out any kind of housing and for having to go through so many court proceedings as my Ex is incapable of sitting down and discussing things rationally and putting the needs of the children first. After nearly 5 months of separation would I have any right whatsoever to return me and the children to the family home (joint mortgage and payments are up to date) and request that he leaves and rents somewhere locally. He is away for work a lot and hardly uses the house. The children really need to be back near their schools, friends and family and to have separate bedrooms again as sharing is causing major upsets. If it was just for me I wouldn't even bother fighting for the house but it affects the children too and I just cannot see how the logical solution isn't to let the children (and me) have their home back and for him to let me contribute financially to providing that for them whilst he finds smaller, less expensive accommodation nearby and then tries to rebuild his relationship with them slowly and carefully instead of forcing me through court to force them to see him when they don't want to as yet. Really confused and depressed about my options and rights and how to go about getting the children their home back. Any advice greatly appreciated. Thank You. ps. I've had 15+ years of him emotionally abusing me and convincing me I have no rights should I ever dare leave him so finding it hard to stand up to him and convince myself I do have a right to a home for the children.

[MrsBertBibby]

Oh and of course he can and will try to use your depression and anxiety againt you, and try to use your housing situation against you too. Let him. It won't do him a scrap of good. Seriously, depression and anxiety are a normal part of the landscape for divorce professionals. Do you seek help? Yep. Are you making suicide threats at your kids? Nope. Then nothing to see here, move along.

Honestly, you have got this man colonising your brain, and you're doing his abuse for him. Stop listening to him. My professional opinion (20 years) is he's a delusional twat and a nasty shit, and the minute you believe that that is what everyone else sees is the minute you are free.

You know how I know he's a delusional twat? He's defending the divorce. Simple as that.

[meld96]

Thank you so much. That explains it far better than I understood my solicitor's explanation. I have a meeting with her this morning so hopefully she will shed some light on best route to take. Yes he is excluding me from the property by changing all the locks. - he even reported me to the police for a suspicious burglary when I did gain entry (locksmith picked a lock) in order to get some more of mine and the children's belongings that he wouldn't return to us. I don't think it is possible to have us both live in the house and remain 'safe' as if he cannot accept his behaviour then it's not going to change. However I have normalised it and coped with it for so long that a short period of time until he finds other accommodation might be bareable and he could use it to try and regain his relationship with the children so that they're happy to go visit him. (Likely wishful thinking perhaps) If he'd been abnormal reasonable person in the first place then non of this would be happening - if he'd accepted the marriage was over and that we couldn't live together but that we needed to prioritise the children's needs then there would have been no need for him to drag everything through court but he told me he would do so he couldn't back down after that. It's all so very very sad as I'm not wanting to ruin his life or keep his kids away from him at all but simply want to live without him and give the kids a happier, kinder environment to grow up in. Thank you so much for your help and advice. Makes things so much clearer to see it written down and hear other people's views.

[meld96]

Oh you've just made me laugh so much on those last couple of lines. My friends and family have been calling him the same phrases and I still find myself making excuses for him and believing what he tells me. You should see what he's written in his cross-petition. Makes me out to be a total control freak who told him he'd never see his kids again, hid my benefits money from him (I saved and paid for a patio) forced him against his will to have a vasectomy and alienated him from his son by telling him it was it was 'daddy's fault he has type 1 diabetes'. There's at least another x10 points too - all a total twist of lies and mis truths. I just don't think I have the energy and confidence to go and stand up in yet another court room and go through all that in front of him too but if they go with his petition then I can be made liable for costs on that too. I can't get his voice (and threats) out of my head, they've been there for so long they won't shift. He told me parental alienation is a criminal offence and I could get the kids taken off me there and then when it's proven. He's told me the courts will make me liable for his loans that are in his name as he can prove they're all for stuff to do with the house and i'all end up owing him money and he won't need to give me a penny of Child Maintenance cos of that. He's told me he can keep the house and kids and the courts will make me go and look after them for free for him. he's told me he can get an au pair to do what I do for £50 a week. He's told me I'm lucky he loves me cos I'm alive and got a house (years back that one but still sticks with me) He's thrown himself down the stairs I. Front of the kids and tried to make out I pushed him. He's tried to make out in front of the kids that I've run his foot over. He's tried to make out that I've mortally wounded him when just trying to get past him to get out of a room when he's blocking the exit. He even said that having his vasectomy was a life threatening operation and he can have me done for cruelty for mid-leading him into having it and I've ruined any chance of him having more kids if he meets a 30year old who wants a family! And then he still turns round and asks me to move back in with him and try again after 2 hours of keeping me in the house last week and not letting me leave when I asked and just shouting and screaming at me. He is a total delusional twat indeed but unfortunately he's still the kid's Dad and I somehow have to find a way of sorting all this out for their benefit.

[NameChange30]

I don't have time for a long post but I think you could really do with counselling to help undo some of the damage he's done. Could you ask your GP and/or Women's Aid about any counselling that might be available?

I'm sure the Freedom Programme will be hugely helpful but that's not until January and I think you need one-to-one support before then.

[meld96]

I've referred myself back onto the Healthy Minds programme trough my GP yesterday so hopefully will get some talk therapy soon. My friends and family have been brilliant support and I've had a meeting with my solicitor this morning. I'm going to agree for the divorce to go ahead on his petition but state that I do not agree to his reasons and attach the notice from court last week that says about his emotional abuse etc etc but that I just want to divorce to go through. (Oh and that I don't agree to paying his costs). He seems to have been persuaded by his solicitor to at least try Mediation so that's now going to be set up (I will be asking for the house and offering contributions) The child arrangements will be left to be dealt with by cafcas and the court unless he decides he wants to stop the process and actually try and be a Dad instead of trying his best to ruin the mother of his children. (I still live in hope sigh) My Solicitor said that if he doesn't agree anything reasonable in mediation then it will still all have to go to court re: house and finances but he's arguing over such small amounts of money that he's going to spend more than they're worth perusing them. She still isn't convinced an occupation order is necessary cos hopefully he'll agree to sort the housing situation out in mediation. Or he might just be using it all as yet another stalling technique!!

[NameChange30]

I'm glad you've referred yourself for the Healthy Minds programme, that's great. Hope you won't have to wait too long.

I'm very surprised that your solicitor is saying you should do mediation. As far as I'm aware, you don't have to do mediation if there has been abuse - you can skip that stage and go straight to court. But if you do go, I suggest you have separate arrival times and separate rooms from your STBXH. At your first appointment you should tell the mediator about the abuse and show them any evidence.

Your solicitor is rather clueless naive about abuse if they think the mediation is going to work and he will simply agree to move out of the house so you can move back in

[meld96]

I think she's using it as a tactic to say that I'm being reasonable and trying to suggest ways of keeping things out of court and then if he doesn't co-operate (which he won't) then it will still have to go to court anyway but I can say 'I tried' and if he does suddenly decide to co-operate then that's great and we hopefully can get things sorted out - will not be holding my breath though! It'll definitely be 'shuttle' mediation - I can't sit in a room with him and keep my thoughts straight!

[NameChange30]

Ah that makes more sense! Well as long as you don't have to attend too many sessions and spend too much money on them!

[meld96]

The mediation will be free with legal aid. phew and if he doesn't cooperate or provide information or bring anything to the table after a couple of sessions then they will dismiss it and say to go to court anyway!

[meld96]

So next question as he's been getting at me again today is: At the court hearing there were no directions given for access whatsoever by the judge. My son really wants to have his birthday present though from his dad and I said to ex he could see the kids at either local supermarket cafe or in town so they were somewhere public and I could be nearby. He's now telling me he wants them for shopping, lunch and to take them back to the former marital home and if I don't agree then it proves his point of parental alienation and he's already told cafcas that I'm trying to manipulate the children and put words into their mouths. He says that cos my daughter sent him a text last Thursday (just after I'd got home from the court hearing) saying 'Mummy says No' to the meet up I'd arranged for last Saturday that he has actual proof of alienation! I'm so scared on what the best thing to do is cos the Judges said No Order for contact but if I refuse them seeing him he uses it against me. This is why it's so difficult for me to just get him out of my head as it's constant over the kids and I'm too scared that whatever I do or don't do can be used against me to prove to cafcas that this is all my fault and nothing to do with his behaviour at all.

[NameChange30]

Do you mean that the judge hasn't made a ruling or court order about contact yet?

In that case you're within your rights to stick to what's best for the children, if that's no contact or very little contact, so be it.

A contact centre might be the best solution, as you would know they're safe but wouldn't have to supervise. Do you think he would agree to that?

However, all the back and forth over contact can't be helping your mental health, so I think it would be best to ask him to stop contacting you and simply arrange it all via mediation and solicitors.

You might find this guide useful - you would need to phone the helpline to get a copy:
rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/child-arrangements-and-domestic-violence-a-handbook-for-women/

[MrsBertBibby]

No no no no no. No contact, unless specifically ordered.

Your son doesn't even want to see him, he just wants his present. No reason his dad can't post it. That's what he'd do if he gave a toss about his son, which he doesn't, on account of being a delusional twat as previously determined.

Nothing of what you've described is proof of anything except that he is a delusional twat. Stop listening to him. He has nothing, he is talking monumental bollocks, which is a clear symptom of delusional twattery of the highest order.

[MrsBertBibby]

And don't fir heaven's sake try to supervise contact by being "nearby". You will just risk your kids observing more abuse.

He will have to wait, and your son will have to accept that Dad is too much of a dick to post him his present.

[meld96]

No contact was ordered after the fact finding hearing but he keeps messaging and emailing the kids and telling them he'all buy them something if they see him so now son has said he wants to see him for his present and daughter has said she wants to see him so he can buy her some games - hence why I thought it would be ok for them to go see him at a shop, in public but now it's turned into an argument about him insisting they go to the house for him to set the new x-box up and the kids are saying they'll go cos they want the x-box so now if I say no I look like I'm controlling them. My head is so screwed up it really is - this is exactly why I've never managed to leave him before cos he's twisted everything so well back into being my fault and my problem. I can't do this much longer cos even the slightest risk of me losing the kids is enough to drive me back to make sure I'm constantly with them. 😞 sorry. Confidence and conviction of my own thoughts and instincts has totally gone.

[NameChange30]

You just block his number and email from your children's phones and email accounts. He shouldn't be contacting them if it's to manipulate them and blame you for "controlling" them when a court has ordered that he can't see them. He is just making it worse for the children and tbh you could use his messages to them against him, because he is disregarding the court order and not respecting their needs.

I think it's getting to the point now when you need to block him yourself as well. You're letting him into your head too much.

[NameChange30]

You must (not just)

[beginnersewer]

Just to remind you of the facts as I'm reading them, as you may be so involved with the situation that you have lost sight of the key facts:

1. The court found that he had been abusive to both you and the children.
   
2. The court have not said he has the right to see the children. I'm not clear whether you mean the judge said he should have no contact with the children (in which case it sounds like letting him see them is in breach of the court ruling), or whether there hasn't been any ruling on the contact issue.
   Because of 1) the chances of him getting full custody would seem remote to me and surely it would be seen as reasonable for you to be cautious about contact until and unless such time as the court orders it.
   
   You are not alienating him from the children because you have offered contact. If he genuinely just wanted to see the children he would agree to meeting them in a public place somewhere. He is manipulating you via them by bribing them with x-box etc. Keep records of all texts etc sent to you and to the children, especially if judge has ordered no contact as he is then in the wrong by contacting them at all, let alone putting pressure on them to meet up.
   And while it is of course distressing to say no to your children over something like this, the court found that he had behaved badly to your children. Therefore your priority should be to keep them safe from him because you are the adult and you can see the whole picture - just as you might say no to them doing other activities which you know are unsafe or unhealthy, however much they pester you.
   It does sound like communication over contact needs to be via a third party - you are still in a vulnerable place and you need someone to be firm on your behalf.
   Good luck.

[MrsBertBibby]

Of course your confidence is shot. That's what abuse does.

I am amused at him complaining that you "control" the kids. They are 6 and 9, and if you could not control them, they would be in care. S31 Children Act.

You need to take charge, and be their parent. He is unable to parent them properly, and contact with him, including all these texts and emails, is harming them. Stop worrying what he will say. Explain to your children that going to the house is not on the table until the Judge says so. If Dad wants them to have an XBox then he can give it to them to have with you. You will set it up. It's his choice, not yours.

Did you report his imprisoning you in the house to police? Does CAFCASS know?

[meld96]

The judge said that she wasn't making a ruling regarding contact at this time and apart from ordering us to attend a separated parents information programme she didn't say anything about me having to facilitate contact. My son however has been waiting since July for his present and now he knows it's an Xbox he is willing to go to the house on his own to get it! I've tried to tell him no and that he can meet his daddy somewhere in public but he is getting really cross at me. I have offered for my ex to come to my mums house to set it up (and I can get another family member to be here) but he's waffling on about internet speeds and needing him to be at the house to do it on his account!? My head is seriously hurting and I'm just getting more and more depressed at having to keep thinking about how to appease him and not cause an argument - when I don't even live with him anymore!!!! I've spent years doing this and I thought that 5 months down the line he'd realise he can't keep telling me what to do but now he can use the kids to do it so even better! Can feel myself giving up and giving in as getting so soul destroyed by his constant picking away at my confidence and belief. i just feel damned if a do and damned if I don't.

[NameChange30]

As I said before you need to block communications between him and the children so he can't bribe and manipulate them with offers of an X box. Reopen the CSA claim and use the money to buy them an X box yourself!

You need to be firmer with the children as well. Unfortunately if you let your STBXH blame you, they will learn to do it too. It's important that you start standing up for yourself with all of them. I know it's hard but you can do it.