What £ agreement would be reasonable?

[SortingStuffStill]

Been married 15 years, 2 dc together. I have been stay at home parent/part-time worker for past 15 years, dh's f/t career gone really well. Jointly own 1 house, equity c. £380k but live in one of most expensive areas of England so to buy 2x houses with this will be difficult. I would want to be primary carer 4-5 days a week. I have been primary carer mainly esp in last 6 yrs when dh has been away much of the week.

I gross £17k (part-time), he grosses £130k plus bonuses. I brought £70k equity, £30k inheritance and no debt to marriage; he brought £8k equity and about £10k debt.

Wondering what would be fair- i need to be able to afford a family home in a v expensive area, i would like recompense for what extra I brought to the marriage and for being primary carer all these years. Dh muttered about splitting equity 50-50 "to be fair" . So, any ballpark ideas of where we'd go in terms of child/spousal maintenance, equity split? I need to get some idea so i can plan feasible areas to keep them in current schools ideally. Many thanks.

[lifeisunjust]

My husband's legal bill for HIS court proceedings against me came to £29,000. My bill self-representing and paying for direct access barrister came to £3,000. Not untypical costs from research.

In the other country, with my husband finally agreeing to mediation, the cost was £200.

It would take an awful lot of mediation to add up to £32,000 in costs.

[lifeisunjust]

I'd say it is very wise to seek initial legal advice AND read up and understand as much as you can about everything about the law, court proceedings, mediation etc. Think long and hard about going along the solicitor all the way route.

I self represented, no choice, even if I'd wanted a solicitor, not a single one would allow me out of 30 contacted to pay in arrears and wanted several kkks in advance. It ruled out the option for me, glad it did in the end, in retrospect they couldn't have done any better than myself.

Try try and try again mediation. It takes 2 sides. I had my husband take me to court in 2 countries, failed miserably to get him to mediate in one country but finally after 2 years and 8 failed appeal hearings and me again self representing and him with a solicitor, he decided to come to mediation. It took a few emails (didn't even do face to face) and he finally accepted the proposal and compliance with the court's decision offered to him 2 years earlier, plus the arrears he'd built up. Never give up the mediation option. If you have a pig of a husband or wife, some day they might change briefly to allow justice to prevail.

In the end in the UK, after 2 year of self representation, I took a bank loan of 3k to pay a direct access barrister. I would have perhaps taken on the barrister earlier but it took that long to get a bank loan. I went to court with a husband, higher earner, rejection of children and not seen them in years, wanting 55% of assets. I kept to my original offer, the barrister saw it as reasonable and possible, the judge thought so too, increased my offer to 63/37 split. Direct access at cheapest means making up your own court bundle (husband refused despite him being court ordered to do it judge told me to make my own because of non cooperation) I had to write my own narrative and other court documents and was bloody impressed by what I managed to do, my papers were better than those produced by husband's solicitor and judge said so too. I just found the matrimonial act online and wrote out against all the points.


There is a pro bono direct access barristers' association where I applied to and was accepted for free 3 day court representation. Problem was no-one was available on the days the court had chosen for the hearing and the court refused to change the days to suit the free barrister so I had to pay. I am not sure I would have been able to stand up to the horrible horrible disgusting things said about my children and me by the other solicitor if I had gone into that hearing without the final representation.

[Pisssssedofff]

Liam Gallagher and his ex got told off for fighting over £10 million which was seen as a small amount. It's all relative. I intend to fight tooth and nail for £2.5k which is peanuts but my only chance of staying on the property ladder so it's priceless to me

[Laura812]

It does depend on the amounts in dispute. For biggish cases you might spend a hugely lot less on a day's mediation than say £200k (what someone I know) spent on a divorce which went to trial. If you're talking smaller sums then there may not be such a big difference between mediation costs and going all the way to court costs.

We both had solicitors and I paid both (I am the higher earner) and we also negotiated face to face as still living together using our solicitors for information to negotiate from and then told the lawyers the figures agreed and trhey wrote it up in a consent order for the court - and there were a few drafts before we each accepted the final terms and then that was it - clean break in our case which is what I wanted.

[Pisssssedofff]

Until it's rubber stamped by the court it counts for shit. They can say what they like in mediation and on the day change their minds and all that time and money had gone to waste. It costs the same as going to court so why not just go to court ?

[SortingStuffStill]

Not meaning to sound defensive or contradict your advice, just confused! Thanks for making the effort for a stranger, very kind. I hope i can do the same for other women when i am sorted.

[SortingStuffStill]

Really? How come, did you try it first? Sounds good on paper.

[Pisssssedofff]

Mediation is a waste of time

[SortingStuffStill]

Really sorry to hear your stories if crap exes.

I am really confused- really appreciate the advice but am hearing

1. go straight to a solicitor or even barrister
   
2. sort out ourselves to avoid horrendous bills before court sign off
   
3. halfway house option to sort via mediation or collaborative law process
   
   Help! We have few assets, v high mortgage but he has a v good income and pension.

[Pisssssedofff]

That's funny.
What I find staggering is when there's fuck all to argue about. No equity, no savings, he has a £60,000 pension and still he's arguing. He's not a higher earner, didn't pay child support for years - they caught up with him in the end though so don't let that go - still he wants to go to court. It's hilarious really.

[Laura812]

And every case is different too - I earned 10x my ex and he got almost 60% for a clean break for me - no spousal maintenance paid by me to him, no child maintenance paid by him for the children and I had to agree to pay 5 lots of school fees. He got a mortgage free home and a lot of capital and I got a £1.3m mortgage plus the children to pay for. Anyway we got through it but without doubt divorce law is very very unfair on higher earners. Better never to marry once you had your children - just move them in or even better turf them out before bed time and then you get a full night's sleep without snoring.

[oldfatandtired1]

Every case is different and you do need legal advice. My six figure earning husband left 4 years ago, divorce finalised September 2015. He was a 50/50 man throughout despite his earning 4 x my salary and a 22 year marriage. I walked away with 90% equity and half his 500k pension in return for a clean break. The youngest child was 18 when he left so not even any dependent children. I bought a beautiful 2 bed cottage, mortgage free, and have money in the bank. At the beginning I asked that he transfer the house over to me and I'd walk away - well, I lost 40k in the house but gained 250k in pension . . .

[tic73]

OMG! This could be me! 15 yrs 2 kids and the 50/50 crap! Amicable here but mediation next week where I know it's gonna blow!
It won't be 50/50....at the very least 60/40.

[lifeisunjust]

Very good advice from Fidelia. Once you have the CETV of all pensions and have a final figure on entire marital assets, you might find that 60-70% of the assets is not far off the value of your family home of 380l or not far off the cost of downsizing to a new family home, just plucking out the 60-70% as a possible amount you might be awarded as principle carer for the children.

Take a look at how much cash you could also raise. I was desperate to keep the family home and I'd offered 40% to my husband, the 40% made up of endowments and car. I was unable to secure a mortgage, due to where I reside, but I was able to squeeze 2 personal loans and credit card balance transfers to make up to the 40%, not the best interest rates compared to a mortgage. In the end the judge awarded my husband 37% in court, he refused the out of court and was convinced the judge would give him 55% of family assets!!! In the end I only had to give him 37%. I managed equalized pensions too, but if I couldn't get those personal loans, I would have had to take less of the pension pot to "pay" for more of the eventual 37% I did hand over.

Laur812 so true about fathers disengaging with their children. My husband beat the hell out of me then fled the country never to return. It's 3 years since he bothered to see his younger children, he kept up sporadic contact with the eldest and hasn't seen him in a year, despite the eldest now being at university 60 minutes away from where his dad apparently now lives. It is as if the children do not exist for him. He is too busy now.... being a woman apparently.

[SortingStuffStill]

Can imagine, good luck battling on

[Minime85]

It took time and still isn't easy at times but only did finances a year after he left so time for dust to settle by then

[SortingStuffStill]

You did well to keep it happy and amicable, quite rare i imagine. I feel i lack the calm, perspective or maturity right now. Bitter & twisted! But early days.

[Minime85]

I took all equity to my marriage over £25k and was told by solicitor as 10 yr marriage seen as medium-long ten now a days don't expect judge to accept that as my reason for getting equity. I got it as when break it all down and I was main carer of kids then it was fair. And we were both happy and amicable and actually I think courts would rather that where possible.

[SortingStuffStill]

Not where I live, Job! Am feeling shitty enough, Job so give it a rest please. I would have double alone that from my first house equity so would be going away from marriage with far less equity than I brought and on a crappy income.

[SortingStuffStill]

Laura- you're right, money doesn't buy happiness, time with the Dc is precious, glad it helps you to think its worthwhile. I can already see dh disengaging form kids to an extent I would never have believed possible. His loss I guess, think he's dreaming of a bachelor life and what he's going to be spending all that disposal income on😡. Yes, am bitter, I invested in our marriage and my primarily in/underpaid part of it and get v little of the income. I am master educated, have had fairly senior roles but with one SN kid and another still quite young, my career has taken a back seat. Which I thought would be OK, could pick up in time, but now my hands are tied by constraints of needing to be with dc and unaffordability of housing here.

[Jobseekernightmare]

£175k deposit is quite a whack.

[SortingStuffStill]

I don't expect to buy a property outright with equity- primarily my equity from when I entered marriage! Nowhere did I say that, I would expect to move to a v small house in a much less nicer area in order to find a house I could afford on my income - current and projected...

[Jobseekernightmare]

I'm a little amazed that you want to buy outright with equity.

If he has paid mortgage largely but you put equity in, then it depends how much he paid in I guess. 50% of equity might be fair, we can't tell.

I do think it's fair to consider that a good chunk if his ability to earn £150k rests on your contribution to his well being and the family's well being, so maitainance is definitely appropriate, but let's get it into some perspective, you are seeking a paid for house and an income more than £1000 a month, in an expensive area which means you are in the equivalent top 10% of earnings without taking your employment into consideration, with this you are in the top 5%. Of course go for what you like, but getting half of the equity from an expensive property isn't bad