Financial advice

[loopylou1984]

My lovely grandmother has unfortunately been in a nursing home for nearly a year now, with a dementia diagnosis.
My grandad is still in their family home and they had a fair amount of savings of which half have been spent on the nursing home fees.

Now that half has gone, my mum has been in touch with social services and the council to arrange the funding from them. They have told her on the phone that because there is £25,000 (out of £50,000) in their joint account that £12,500 must be spent on the fees. That shouldn't be right as the starting amount was £50,000.

Mum is now beating herself up that she didn't split the money in to separate accounts at the beginning and is devastated that she is potentially 'lost' grandad £12,500.

Does anyone know where we stand here? We can obviously prove via bank statements that half of their joint money has been used - will that be enough? Or have we really lost it.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

I think you could probably do with legal advice. LAs seem to be pretty hard-nosed when dealing with money, and you need a firm grasp of the facts to be able to stand up to them. It's worth paying for legal advice when you compare it with the sums you might lose. There's an association called Solicitors for the Elderly who have special knowledge of the law as relating to the elderly sfe.legal/ - alternatively, look for recommendations on the Alzheimers Society web site.

[loopylou1984]

Thank you.

My mum has been in to age UK to ask their advice and someone is meant to be getting back to her. The man she spoke to knew exactly what she was going to say before she even finished so I guess it's a common occurrence.

Thank you for the name of that solicitor, I will pass it on. It just seems so unfair, they're literally stealing from my grandad. X

[littlebillie]

Try Symponia

www.symponia.co.uk

They were helpful

[Jessbow]

I think you Mum might have got her thinking a bit off.

the first thing Grandad should have done is split their savings into two accounts. His and hers.

When her half is reduced to 23k, then funding kicks in

on the assumption that Grandad is over 60, the value of the property ( or grans half of it) If they owner it, is discounted.

[loopylou1984]

Thanks little billie, I'll have a look.

Yes Jess we now know this would have been the easiest thing to do. But there is next to no help with this and my mum (and certainly my grandad) didn't know that.

My question is now that we have spent nanny's half of the money, and can prove with bank statements that this is the case, is there any chance of saving the £12,500?

[Jessbow]

really not sure how you can, unless you can work it back, and you'd need an understanding Social worker to look at it with you.

You can but try

[loopylou1984]

Well we can quite easily work it back as the account is only really used for a couple of things. Mum actually has statements already showing the starting balance, the payments going out and the balance now.

[florentina1]

I think the advice you got from the LA is incorrect, I would appeal the decision.

[loopylou1984]

Thanks Florentina- mum is going to appeal.

Do you have any experience of this?

[florentina1]

I do, my mum and step father had joint accounts and only half of the balance was counted. I can’t do links but AGEUK have a fact sheet on it

[florentina1]

It is AGEUK fact sheet “paying for personal care”. LAs obviously need to save money, but they do have to follow these rules. It clearly states that only the personal capital can be used. The fact that your mum did not split the balance should not apply. If it is joint names they only have half each.

[loopylou1984]

Thank you.
What they're saying is that the amount in there at the point of contacting them for help should be halved.... even though that is technically already half.
Hopefully as we can prove the balances etc the appeal might be successful!

[hatgirl]

This is easily sorted , just ring them again and ask that someone comes out to do a financial assessment. If you haven't previously had a social work assessment they may insist on doing that first to check that your nanny is entitled to Council support before they do the financial assessment but everything will be back dated to the point you made contact/her savings dropped below the threshold.

The information you have been given is incorrect anyway because even if the whole of the £25k is considered to be your nanny's (it won't be) the financial charging threshold kicks in at £23k anyway so she would be due an assment then anyway.

I'm a social worker and have dealt with this situation loads of times, it's just a paperwork exercise.

[loopylou1984]

Hat girl - thank you for your input.

For clarification when nanny moved in to the home the joint account had £50,000.
Mum has used £25,000 of this to pay the care home up until now.
The £25,000 left is grandads half of the joint account.
There is other money - some in grandads name which is obviously safe, some which is in nanny's name and has been used up other than the £23k which is safe.
Mum contacted them when the joint account got down to half and they are now saying that this 'half' should be split between nanny and grandad as this is counted from the point of contact with them not from the point she went in to the home.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this?

[hatgirl]

Ah sorry because you name changed I missed one of your updates about there being £23k as well somewhere else.

I think you need a flesh and blood financial assessor in front of you to do the CRAG assessment. If you have documented how nanny's half has already been spent on her care you may be able to come to an agreement with them.

Has you mum got financial LPoA?

It may also depend on if you have previously had any previous Social Work/financial assessments. Even a conversation where they said 'contact us again when you hit £23k' should be enough.

[unexpectedtwist]

Man's half of the 25k if they count it is below the threshold anyway so why are they quibbling?

[loopylou1984]

Yes sorry, totally muddled up my user names!

Yes mum has both financial and medical POA for both grandparents.

She has definitely spoken to people before, but not sure exactly of the details of these conversations.

Appreciate all your help.

Unexpected - the thing is that the whole £25,000 is grandads. That's the problem as they are saying that only half of it should be.