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Dementia and Alzheimer's

MIL went into a home last night and they want to give her back

46 replies

honeyroar · 01/08/2015 14:08

As above. The home specialises in Dementia. They came and saw her, had meetings with us, seemed great. After three hours of leaving her they were ringing to say she's upsetting other residents and we may need to collect her. She was basically shouting and saying there's nothing wrong with her and that she's never seen a dr and we're after her money. She's 81, slight and not violent although can be horrible when angry.

What do we do now? She was wandering in the evenings, we've cancelled her day carers who did 3 hrs a day. My husband was spending 3hours a day there and on tenterhooks at night. It was making him Ill with worry. We thought we'd found a solution, we knew she'd be awkward at first but thought the home would be experienced (they said they were) and try harder than that.

Any advice?

OP posts:

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eatyouwithaspoon · 01/08/2015 16:53

The cannot deprive her of her liberty if she has capacity, the needs to speak to the local authority DOLS team and her CPN/GP

eatyouwithaspoon · 01/08/2015 16:53

capacity yo make devisions about where her care needs are met

twentyten · 01/08/2015 16:53

Hi honey. How hard for you. My mil with dementia was sectioned in the care home she was in- so that can happen to hold her against her will. Not sure of the process- doctor/ ss involved. It will be hard for her- and you and sil. Good luck

NoYoureGrumpy · 01/08/2015 16:56

if there are issues about capacity, they need to consult the social work team immediately and the home should know that.

honeyroar · 01/08/2015 17:00

They were saying at the meeting the other day that they needed us to sign something to do with keeping her there against her will. Would that be it?

The trouble is I'm only getting most of this second hand as I'm so far away, so am not fully up to date with what has been set up..

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honeyroar · 01/08/2015 17:04

The capacity thing scares me. Sometimes she seems fine and can fool most people, then the next minute she's not recognising people or her own home and wandering off looking for her home at night. What if they say she's ok and send her home?

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tvlover1234 · 01/08/2015 17:13

Has she not been seen by her doctor regarding her Dementia? They rate the dementia on a scale through a series of tests. It should be in her notes if she has capacity or.not.

NoYoureGrumpy · 01/08/2015 17:30

that's not quite right tvlover - people don't have capacity or not, the judgement as to whether someone has capacity or not can change from decision to decision. So she may have capacity for some decisions but not others. Capacity can also fluctuate, so she might have capacity today and not tomorrow.

So the local authority will have to do an assessment of her capacity to make the decision to leave the home of her own free will.

more information here www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=354

NoYoureGrumpy · 01/08/2015 17:31

honeyroar, part of the capacity assessment will involve speaking to people who know your MIL best, they won't just take your MIL's word for it, don't worry.

honeyroar · 01/08/2015 17:45

Thanks NoYoureGrumpy. She was assessed about 18 months ago, they thought she was fine at home, they got me a bit angry as they wouldn't look round her house at the stuff she'd started hoarding or at her fridge full of food gone off. Since then we've had carers in six days a week, and they keep a diary of their day and how she was that day, so that would probably help. I think I'm just scared they'll say she's fine this time too.

Thanks very much everyone for your help. It is good having people to talk to when I'm so far away. Sorry I don't have enough info regarding what she's been tested for and what she hasn't. It's usually my husband or SIL that take her to appointments and I sometimes don't hear if I'm away on a work trip. I'm much more in a backup role than decision making. She's not my mum..

OP posts:

MissBattleaxe · 01/08/2015 19:15

It may be a Deprivation of Liberty that the family has to agree to and sign. It's usually a safety thing that means she is not allowed out alone.

honeyroar · 01/08/2015 19:30

Yes I think that was it Missbattleaxe.

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NoYoureGrumpy · 01/08/2015 19:45

she's entitled to another assessment as her circumstances have changed, and honey (that sounds so intimate! ), I know how stressful it is, trying to get access to resources, even when people really need it.

It's good she has family who want to help though.

Madratlady · 01/08/2015 19:55

You don't have to just agree to take her home, if they really can't cope then social services can help find an emergency place at another home. I wouldn't have any faith in the home if they can't cope with such normal dementia related behaviour and I would be looking for another permanent place for her, they should be able to cope with this.

honeyroar · 01/08/2015 19:58

SIL said they'd done well with her. DH said Mil had been ok that afternoon, had stopped shouting so perhaps it will be ok?

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TheSteveMilliband · 01/08/2015 20:21

Hope so Honey. Where in the country are you? I would warn you that if your dm is self funding, adult services may not get involved except re. a deprivation of liberty (which can be a helpful thing) and most depts have delays (should be assessed within a week but often taking months). If she's objecting to being there for more than a brief period care home should be making an application for DOL and they should know this.
There are dementia care homes and dementia care homes - some manage only the "pleasantly confused" whilst others are fabulous. Shouldn't be that way but in truth not much is needed to get a dementia registration. GP / mental health team / duty social worker may well have a better idea of where is good if worse comes to worse and you need to look elsewhere. Adult services should give some advice, though I doubt they will "sort it all out".
If they (home) really did say she couldn't stay I think I'd be thinking of things like "safeguarding" and mentioning that in a faux naive "she'd be really vulnerable and at risk, should I be raising this?" way. Or could go more bolshy with a formal safeguarding referral (to adult services) and /or cqc. To be honest though, if it gets to that point I don't think I'd want a family member in said care home anyway.

Candlefairy101 · 01/08/2015 21:15

Hi OP, my family have been running dementia homes for as long as I can remember and for your situation to have happened you MIL must of REALLY upset the other residents . The action to call you and explain that she is upsetting the residents is normal procedure considering it was her first night. If this had happened after a week then they would of rang her social worker.

I understand your frustration and worry but think of it this way, at least you know they are protecting and taking into consideration the residents they have already got. If your mum settled into a home in the future (which she will) at least you know that they're not going to let anyone upset her whiles she's in their care.

Does your MIL have a social worker currently? Is this her first placement? Has she attended a care home for a few hours before and then come home, this is called rest bite, where you can or social worker can drop her off morning/afternoon for a few hours to give yourselves some rest.

honeyroar · 03/08/2015 22:19

Hello all, just wanted to let you know that she's still there and things are slightly settling down. She's upset in the mornings but calms down at night. Yesterday she thought she was in hospital. She still says she wants to go home, but they manage to distract her into saying she'll stay another day (aren't you coming on our trip out tomorrow...? Oh ok, I'll stay for that). They say she has to stay 28 days before they can keep her in? I'm back home now, so have spoken to SIL and she says the home has actually tried v hard.

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twentyten · 03/08/2015 22:31

Good to hear things are calming. It will take time. Just talk one day at a time. Focus on distraction. Do the family have power of attorney? Look after yourself

NoYoureGrumpy · 04/08/2015 14:50

glad it's less fraught for you all honeyroar, and that the home are putting some effort into her care.

I'm not sure what they mean about the 28 days though? Do you mean she can't be kept in against her will for 28 days? Because if she's vulnerable they definitely can by following the right legal procedures. Or is it about contracts or something?

honeyroar · 04/08/2015 14:59

I think that they meant before a deprivation of liberty can be used, but again I'm hearing it third hand,so I could be wrong.

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