Matched with an editor

[LuciferRising]

I decided to treat myself to having an editor read over my first finished manuscript. I went through a popular organisation and have been matched with someone. My only concern is that my fantasy novel is written through the lens of being female, and the editor is male specialising in sci fi.

Do you feel this is an issue? I feel my writing definitely reads more for a female audience. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing because of my inexperience. I guess I have found myself reading mainly women authors over the last couple of years although I do like Cormac McCarthy.

I am going to read one of their books to understand their style.

I think I would be nervous too but the common sense part of me says that this man is a professional and will have, no doubt, dealt with a lot of female writers in the past so it shouldn't be a concern. I don't read a lot of sci-fi or fantasy but I believe there is overlap between the two genres so, again, it shouldn't be a concern. Ultimately, what you are paying for is someone with a bit of distance and an understanding of how plot/character development/language works and who will pick you up on areas of weakness. In my opinion it is an uncomfortable process but it has to be to improve a manuscript. With the best will in the world, if you hand your manuscript to a female fantasy fan who says: "Superb - I love it!" you've kind of wasted your money.

I'd be interested to know how you find the service once you get the report back.

I am a technical writer, so different perspective (which might not be helpful). But I think that an editor matched to your target audience would give more insightful feedback. I’d be hesitant of this male editor

His bio does say fantasy and dystopia too (which I classified it as) but I have romance thrown in, and although not the main theme, it features heavily. The themes are redemption, duty, leadership and consequence of choice.

I have found a woman author that has used him and have downloaded her book, but his appears very sci-fi orientated. But I agree, he is a professional with numerous books published. I guess I need to trust the process.

You're presumably paying a lot of money for the service, so I would think carefully. What do you actually want from this read? What about having him read a shorter portion of the MS, and see if you find the feedback credible and useful? I don't know which consultancy you're using, but some at least offer partial MS reading. You could either go on to have him read the full MS if you felt it would be useful, or see if you can find someone else to read the full MS.

I did similarly a year ago with my MG fantasy, which has a female lead.
They gave me the option of two, and my immediate reaction was that I would want the lady, but just in case I bought one of each of their books to look at.
I enjoyed both their books, but at the end I felt that the male editor/writer's style was much closer to mine. Then when I looked further I saw the female was more towards young adults, and that decided me.
I did worry I chosen the wrong one, but when I got the report I knew that I'd chosen the right one. He totally got the story and was really helpful.

So I think what I'm saying is, I wouldn't worry about the male perspective. However I'm would perhaps ask him a little about if he has experience in your genre. I do think reading his book first might help, as it may be that it's closer to your writing than you expect.

Those who used an editor, how did you feel? One moment I feel confident and then I am convinced they're thinking 'why the hell have I been sent this?'

Were the comments useful and was it much work to address?

I can totally agree with the feeling that they'd be laughing behind their hands and wondering why I was bothering at all when it was such rubbish.

But actually he was lovely. Said he'd enjoyed it, and made suggestions that fitted. Although one of his comments started with "I'm sure you can expertly..." and my head said "I'm sure I can't so anything expertly!"
When we had the zoom meeting he'd clearly taken some time to get reacquainted with it and he was happy to answer a couple of emails afterwards.

I'm still addressing the work. I've done an initial change, but there needs a few bigger points to do. It is quite a bit of work, but I can see that the changes have made it better, and I think the further changes will make it better still.

I get an hours call; I'll be so nervous!

I was really nervous. He'd done a report and I wasn't sure if he was just going to go through the motions of saying he'd done the report.
But I think we were on the call for nearly an hour and a half, and he didn't make any sign of trying to brush me off, or that he was bored.
I was expecting to find after 10-15 minutes I would be feeling embarrassed that he clearly wanted to end it, but either he was a good actor or was enjoying going through it.

2 more weeks! The waiting is driving me mad. I've found a place to find beta readers so that will be my next step. Want to start that now but I guess it's pointless?

Well I got the feedback back - they didn't really like it at all!

Get AI to read through it. Takes seconds.

This article will astound you:

The person who edited this will soon be redundant | The Spectator

This sounds like an (understandable) emotional response. Take some time to recover your equanimity. When is your Zoom call happening?

Well, I can email them or have the call but they stated they live in a different time zone - and now I am wondering whether that is code for don't bother.

Some of their feedback is warranted, I think the plot could be stronger, and restructured, but I also wonder whether they did not know the genre because some of the comments are related to known tropes within the genre. Like I said, they are sci-fi, mine is fantasy / romantasy.

I have joined a writing circle and the feedback on a few excerpts was well received.

But, I will go through and see what they are saying in detail. But it doesn't look good.

I have worked as an editor. I don't think it is about 'liking' an MS. It is about assessing its chances in a hugely competitive marketplace. Typically your editor would be looking at stuff like characterisation, plotting, structure, dramatic tension - seeing how your book compares to work by successful writers within your chosen genres. Some aspects of the MS may show promise, but typically other things will need futher deveopment. I think you can use the next week or so to reflect on the assessment you have received and think about specific questions you would like to ask.

I would go for the call because you can do so much going backwards and forward asking questions.
I'd write down some questions you have about the feedback. I went in with a lot of "would it be better if this is swapped around/left out?" "what if I did that..?" and they were able to discuss them and by seeing how I felt they gave more suggestions on the feedback suggestions I liked.

One thing I will ask is about the objection to violence. It is dark fantasy, but worse happens in many books I've read recently including Blood and Ash, ACOTAR, Harper Wood books, Strange the Dreamer books, The Road by Mcarthy, The Poppy Wars. Mine is tame compared to those. Even The Kite Runner deals with far darker themes.

Do NOT do this!! You will lose your rights to the material and your writing will be digested and remembered by the AI for later use. They are continually learning via the material they are fed. I work for an AI development company and ironically, they always tell us NEVER to input any of our own creative writing into the bots.

@LuciferRising I expect you've paid quite a lot for this service so I would try and get the most out of it. As others have said, the editor's response shouldn't be a personal one based on whether they like it or not, it should be objective and give you pointers on how to improve the ms.

I can empathise though. I had an Arts Council Free Read a few years ago and was given a reader who was clearly wrong for me. She thought my ms wasn't 'suspenseful enough' and suggested I dump the entire premise and turn it into a psychological thriller. It's literary fiction and partly set in the 1840s, so that was highly inappropriate. I didn't have a follow up option as it was a free thing, but it left me fuming.

Do let us know some of the things the editor said.

I wasn't sure if that was spam or someone making a helpful suggestion

Yes, exactly this. This editor is thinking about making the best product for a marketplace. I also think you should do the Zoom call, OP. You've paid for this service, and should try to make it as useful to you as possible.

I know to an extent what you mean about a reader not necessarily knowing your genre, but I think this is something you need to think about. Which novels and authors do you see yours as sitting alongside? What type of violence does their work feature, and how graphic? Does yours sit comfortably within the tropes of your genre, or are you pushing boundaries?

But I'm confused by your references to The Kite Runner and McCarthy's The Road -- those are in completely different genres to fantasy/dystopia with a strong interest in romance...?

I agree with others that an editor's personal preference shouldn't come into it. But they should also be properly acquainted with the genre. I edit and turn down requests for work in genres that are not my specialisms, because I don't know the market well enough in those genres to be able to tell if something is cliched or reworking a familiar trope etc.

OP,I agree with PPs - at least get the most from the service and have your call with the editor. Send them a list of specifics by email in advance so you can focus on what you need.

I will have the session, and it's a good idea to send them a list of specifics.

I'm not knocking the feedback - there is much there that is applicable, such as sentence structure, being too close to the work so what is clear to me is not to the reader, the structure needing work, and explanations needed sooner. They did say my prose had potential, and could be commercial in the future but I needed more discipline. Essentially they did not understand the story - at all. I will look at what they did not understand and work through it. But a few things that confuse me are:

• they were pretty much all action, action, action and did not buy-in to the scenes with the protag and antag dialogue exchange, stating it was too slow. Nor did they like the reflections. But in character led pieces there tends to be more of this because it is focusing on character, relationships and internal conflict. I had shared a few scenes in an online writers circle and had positive feedback, even from the hosting editor stating they generated tension, beautifully written and it was good stuff. Obviously, these are snippets and the wider context lost.

• they stated a fair few times they didn't know what xyz was. For example a mountain. But I clearly named a mountain and explained it was a mountain. Even 13 lines above their comment it states 'XXX is simply a majestic mountain.' But they question what it is 13 lines later. There are lots more examples. One of which was a key goal and conflict, stated clearly on the first page, yet they point it out several pages later asking why I haven't mentioned it before. Which had left me confused as to whether you have to reexplain everything over and over.

• they questioned the enemies to lovers, forbidden love tropes, and suggested FMC would not want to be with MMC (no SA btw).

• It felt like they were implying I need to explain everything as soon as the reader encounters it. For example 'explain why this character is less cruel to FMC,' yet because it is written in third person limited, it is not revealed until much later on as a plot point when she finds out why. Again - this is common across many novels. So I am confused here.

• It is written in third person limited, so everything on the page is the FMC POV, yet they kept adding in filtering such as 'she thought.' This has left me confused.

• Said my choice of words such as fort rather than treehouse, use of peninsula (national geographic agrees with me) etc would 'baffle' readers.

• Too many characters, but I have far fewer than most.

There was much more they picked up on.

What type of violence does their work feature, and how graphic? Does yours sit comfortably within the tropes of your genre, or are you pushing boundaries?

It is tame. MMC does far worse in Blood and Ash. Worse happens to side characters in ACOTAR. Far worse in 'What lies behind the veil,' 'GoT.' The Poppy Wars was difficult to read - although this is based on the worst historic events I have even encountered, so slightly different.

It’s natural to have a reaction to an edit and think an editor doesn’t like it. But they really are just doing their job. If they didn’t get something then likely a reader won’t either. It can be a painful process but far better than them saying ‘yes it’s great no changes’ which would be incredibly rare