Typing issues

[Verbena17]

Hi
So I currently have an iPad and an old, slow laptop.
I’m going to get Scrivener so want to hold off getting that until I set firm my choice of tech.

I was planning on persuading DH to buy us a Mac Book but DD has one and says it’s a whole new way of doing stuff that you have to relearn - not just like the iPad. Is she being OTT and is it easier than she’s making out? Is there something similar and intuitive to use (and hopefully cheaper)?

My other huge issue is this….
When I type, I hate having to reach forward over the top of a large area before I get to the keyboard. Yet all laptops I’ve seen have that front area before the keyboard. It’s just not very comfy for me.
I do have a wireless keyboard DH got me that I tried out but whilst I like proper keys instead of flat, iPad style ‘keys’, I don’t want anything like my current one which is more akin to my old Commodore 64 keys.

Someone suggested an iPad on a stand above with a keyboard below but not sure I really want to use my ipad for novel writing. I don’t love it for the file system and it just doesn’t feel right for writing books.

Any suggestions of something that fulfils my criteria?

I've got a Logitech K380 wireless (Bluetooth) keyboard - look it up - it's widely regarded as a great little keyboard with lovely keys (IMHO) - I love it - I use it with both my iPad Pro (I think it's a 2nd gen 12.9" one - reconditioned from Apple - bought about 3 years ago) and a Mac Mini M1 (which I also bought second hand) - I have Scrivener on both the Mac Mini and the iPad - sadly you have to pay separately for both (this is the way the Apple money generating machine works) - the Mac Mini might be cheaper than Macbook BUT you'd have to buy a separate monitor - I actually bought quite an expensive large monitor as the main reason I bought the Mac Mini was to run Logic Pro - the music recording studio software and it helps to have a large monitor for that - BUT - there are plenty of good monitors at any price point you want to work around.

I'm not mad about Scrivener but I persevere with it - there are some good YT videos that help - it's just that I'm sidetracked by so many other things of late - I'm actually writing more on a tiny little app on my Android phone ATM - "Writer Lite" - I paid for the full version after using it more than I thought I would for a few months - mainly writing on the move, i.e. while travelling around in a campervan - I don't want to drag around big/expensive equipment - although I sometimes take the rather unwieldy 12.9" iPad - I use it for several art/drawing applications - that's why I bought the large one with a ton of memory.

Your DD is right - the operating systems on iPad and Mac (macbook, Mac Mini) are different but you muddle through and find/learn what you need to know as you go - so long as you aren't like my wife who get stressed about the differences between iOS, Android, Windows and between different browsers - it really infuriates her.

I wrote software for a living and TBH MacOS and iOS frustrate the hell out of me - they are terrible compared to Windows - which is far more file oriented than app oriented - I use LibreOffice - a very good, complete, totally free equivalent to Microsoft Office on my Windows 10 laptop - I've grown up with Word Perfect (anyone remember that?) and MIcrosoft Word - Scrivener is not, to me, anywhere near as intuitive - it's just different and there is a learning curve. The annoying thing about Scrivener is that there's no try before you buy option - no free/limited version BUT - my view is - put your money where you put your time or where you want to put your time - £70 for MacOS ~£24 for iOS (there are some slight differences but I think you'd have to go through the whole writing/publishing loop to discover the details of that) - if you set up Scrivener to back up everything to either iCloud (I actually back-up to Dropbox) you can work on the same documents from either the Mac or the iPad - it's always wise to have some automatic backups in the cloud.

I also use a Logi M570 wireless marble mouse - that's quite an old one now - I've used marble mice(!?) for years and much prefer them - you move the marble with your thumb - not the mouse with your hand - sady they are a bit expensive - just for a damn mouse.

In short - I like the K380, the Logi Marble mouse and the Mac Mini... and the monitor was a big spend - probably not what many people would need. Does that move you forward with your thinking? Ask anything if you need to - I'll guess there will be/there are - other more experienced Scrivener users on here.

Thanks so much for all of that very helpful information!
I will definitely check out the keyboard you mentioned and have a browse of different laptops/better options.

Whilst the Mac Mini with a separate monitor looks good if I was working in one place and could definitely be an option, im thinking for easy moving around/on holiday etc, taking a monitor won’t be as easy as a laptop.

I’ e so far only watched some videos about scrivener and haven’t seen the price. Is that £70 altogether or monthly?

You can plug a keyboard dongle into a laptop, so try that. I do it all the time for work as I hate my laptop keyboard when I'm at a desk for similar reasons to you.

Then you have the keyboard for your day-to-day and if you're going somewhere, either leave it if it's a short trip, or take it with you.

Aha that sounds like a good idea!
Any suggestions for good basic laptops?

I'd just say don't buy a chromebook if you want to install apps. They're good for quick internet access but not much else.

Am sure others will have good suggestions. I've got a Dell from work which is fine, and years back I got a very budget Lenovo for myself, but it is so budget it is very slow. By and large I use a desktop computer that was built locally, so that's no good to you!

Thanks - I think I’m feeling even less motivated to write as I can’t get my head around what I need to use to write on! 😬😂

Had a chat with DH and we’ve decided to stick with my old laptop for now as it still works. I think I’ll just have a file per chapter and see how it goes.
Thanks for the suggestions - will keep them in mind.

Writing is all about bum in chair.

You don’t need specialist writing software or any fancy hardware.

Word is fine. Pen and paper is fine.

Worry about the writing, not the typing.

Absolutely this! I write novels and academic books and essays on a bog-standard Dell laptop using Word. You absolutely do not need expensive new tech or apps.

Thanks @Pavane .
Can I ask you - when you’re novel writing in Word, how do you like to write/save your chapters/work?

Do you write continuously as one long document or split into chapters and file each separately as one chapter at a time or split into scenes per chapter etc?

I use Word, and I write in one continuous document. I keep a separate document for plotting/structure (which will have a breakdown into chapters/sections, what will go in each, place/time, any backstory that needs revealing etc), and a separate document again called ‘Notes’, which is mostly slightly expanded transcriptions from a physical notebook that goes everywhere with me. The most recent entries read ‘idea to start Ch 4 with flashback to taking mother to [local beach X], where they see a group of women scattering ashes?’ and ‘Nieces ask how she met C’.

I write in one continuous document with a separate document for notes, material etc, and I usually make myself a primitive grid to have a simple at a glance visual record of structure, especially if it involves more than one POV character or more than one timeline.

Like this (and Emma Darwin's blog/free substack is incredibly useful for writing advice in general):
https://emmadarwin.typepad.com/thisitchofwriting/2010/05/help-yourself.html

There is literally nothing complicated with a MacBook. You don't have to learn anything!

But if the OP doesn't actually want a MacBook, and is dubious about the cost, there's no reason for her to buy anything other than a cheap, bog-standard laptop if what she wants it for is novel-writing.

Yeah that's fine - it was in response to the having to relearn everything comment. Just pointing out that they're probably once of the most straightforward devices.

They are also expensive but on average I keep my MacBook about twice as long as I keep any PC laptop. They've got a long life.

Thanks everyone - yes, in my head I’d love a MacBook but DD said there are slightly different keys for different processes, for example there is no back delete key I think she said?

But that’s not a big issue I guess. It was more DH saying about not spending out on one because I think he doesn’t think I’m taking this seriously (writing).
The other day he said, “well if you start getting really into it and write a lot, we can look at a MacBook”.

Don’t think he realised having it to start with, before I begin would be more helpful 😂. Think he just thinks I’m not actually going to write a book.
Ha! I’ll show him 😜

Use Word or Libre Office, they have all the tools you need to write a novel, etc. and also do pdfs, etc. which you may need for submitting. Learn to touch type if you can (it's much quicker) and get a desktop computer with a full-size keyboard.
What matters is what you write and the ability to keep track of changes (if you want to) and make back-ups (I keep dated copies). Nothing exists unless it is backed up on three devices (and this does not include the cloud, which is not a backup), so as well as the desktop, you will need a couple of USBs and preferably an external hard disc. If you back up onto the external hard disc then you can carry that about rather than a laptop (but beware of viruses, hence the USBs).
NB If you truly want a laptop make sure it has a full-size keyboard and be seated at a desk or table, which means your wrists will be just above the mouse pad space (an eternal mouse is more convenient than the mouse pad, I find).

I write in separate documents. I find having to negotiate 100k words difficult, even if one uses the search option. How do you manage?

How do you mean, ‘manage’? What is it that you struggle with in a continuous document? I’d find it harder to judge pace etc in separate documents.

" DD has one and says it’s a whole new way of doing stuff that you have to relearn - not just like the iPad. Is she being OTT"

Yes she's being OTT. There are a few differences between a laptop and a MacBook but broadly they are the same to use. I switched between a laptop for work and MacBook for home without any effort at all.

www.techfinitive.com/explainers/where-is-the-delete-key-on-a-mac-keyboard/

There are some very minor differences between a MacBook keyboard and a PC/laptop but they are very quick to learn and there aren't many differences. You can quickly look anything up that you need.

A document with 100k of words is unwieldy. Believe me, I know, because I used to edit my late DH's work and he did this. I don't find it difficult to keep up with flow with separate documents (and you are less likely to make a catastrophic error and delete a large chunk by accident) and anyway, I practice using chapters to break up the narrative (which is what they are intended for).

Not for me. Separate chapter documents don't work for me. I'm used to long documents because my day job is as an academic. (My last academic book was 120k, come to think of it...) I back up a lot. I do, obviously, use chapters, but I find pace far easier to judge, and the relationship of the chapters to one another, when they're in a single continuous document, But different strokes etc.

Agree, different strokes. My late DH did the same as you.