The effect of schools staying open on people's compliance

[bringbackCabanas]

I DO NOT want schools to close. I'm happy to send my kids in and will continue to do so.

But, the amount of times I hear, or read on here, "well if they sit at school together all day then they can do x y z outside of school" or "my child is mixing with x amount of people five days a week so what's the point of following the rules?"

Basically that if schools are still open then it's not really a "lockdown" and not everyone will take it seriously.

[midgebabe]

@Smelliethenelephant

You can 'sacrifice'all you want but understand your 'sacrifice' is literally pointless if your kids are in a secondary school where the virus is circulating.

No that's incorrect.

We need R to be below 1. Not 0. Therefore we can afford to have some mixing of people. Then we prioritise which mixing we allow

Say no mixing of anyone means R is zero
Normal, pre covid mixing means R is about 3

As mixing of people increases, R increases

What we hope /expect is that R can be below 1 if schools are open provided lots of other social contact is cut.

Yes in school transmission will occur, but that's fine as long as on average R is less than 1.

[LST]

@midgebabe phew! Thanks!

[midgebabe]

@LST

Are childcare bubbles still allowed?

Yes

[LST]

Are childcare bubbles still allowed?

[HarryLimeFoxtrot]

I agree that I will comply with the lockdown as long as the schools remain open.

If they shut the schools, then I will allow my DC to socialise with one other household (our neighbours and their DC) irrespective of whether or not it is legal.

[user1493413286]

Schools staying open makes me more complainant as I don’t want to risk them closing if we don’t comply on everything else

[Smelliethenelephant]

You can 'sacrifice'all you want but understand your 'sacrifice' is literally pointless if your kids are in a secondary school where the virus is circulating.

[notanoctopus]

I don't want schools to close, but as they haven't been opened safely, symptoms that many children present with are not seen as test-worthy, school conditions are perfect for this virus etc, t, t and t is not working effectively, I think it is madness not to have a reset, with schools closed for two weeks and then lock down other areas as appropriate. If it's to be schools open at all costs, then a safer model is needed, backed up by testing for symptoms that kids display. Pissing around and tinkering at the edges whilst cases are going through the roof just costs more jobs, money and health in the long term. It's like fixing a leaking kitchen tap whilst the bath is overflowing upstairs.

I think current situation is hard for people with young children below school age full stop. Two mums with babies can't go for a SD walk outside with masks etc together. A mum on mat leave can't meet anyone in the day. I guess she could get a babysitter and increase risk just to go for a walk with another adult, but that too seems bonkers.

[Sonnenscheins]

It is full of messages scoffing and insisting on house parties/play dates/coffee meets going ahead as planned. Quite a few have said they will only take it seriously when the schools close as then they will know for sure that it’s ‘bad enough’.

Wow

Maybe the Government need to communicate better that we're all making sacrifices so that schools and hospitals can stay open.

[Legooo]

Judging by the messages on our school Facebook group, most parents aren’t regarding this as a ‘proper’ lockdown at all.

It is full of messages scoffing and insisting on house parties/play dates/coffee meets going ahead as planned. Quite a few have said they will only take it seriously when the schools close as then they will know for sure that it’s ‘bad enough’.

I understand why they feel that way but don’t completely agree.

[StaffAssociationRepresentative]

Absolutely - you only have to read threads on MN which are a bit ‘yeah but no but .... can I do xyz ..’

I am really pissed off that we have another lockdown and can’t meet family. I am really effed off with people not following rules. All this ‘let’s do xyz because we will be okay’ is bollocks

#followtherules #savechristmas

[Doyoumind]

I agree. I have been and will continue to stick to the rules. I want schools open. I won't let my DC meet up with friends outside school even though they are in a class bubble with them as it's not necessary. But a lot of people seem to think if they can mix in school they can mix anywhere.

[TheSeedsOfADream]

Italy's schools have all gone to 75% online as a minimum. There will be a new order tomorrow from the govt which will give regions further powers including to make their own regions move to 100%
One of the main reasons given was that mentioned above- the schools were safe (SD, large classes divided, masks, gel and sanitising surfaces so many times a day, temp taken on entry and toilet times logged in case child A met child B in the loo and then tested positive etc)

Problem was, it was a safe bubble. The buses were crowded, the high school kids were hanging round together after school, the primary parents were hanging round at the gate.

[ThornAmongstRoses]

It’s a hard one.

My son is supposed to be going to his friends house after school next Tuesday because me and my husband have got to work late.

And I suppose now I shouldn’t but at the back of my mind I’m thinking, he’s just spent all day around her, hugging and kissing and playing, so what’s the actual difference?

I’m not going to send him because I will comply with the rules, but I can see why some people may not comply because to them, logistically it doesn’t make sense.

[Smelliethenelephant]

OK, so for all the people who trot out the same lazy arguments, day in day out, about closing everything else to allow schools to stay open, it will not work that way. Let me tell you about our secondary school:
A couple of cases in year 12 - a few kids sent home to isolate. One is presumaly asymptomatic, stays at home but siblings in year 10 and year 8 still attend school. Guess what? Cases in year 10. A few kids in year 10 sent home, one is asymptomatic, sibling in year 9 attends school.... guess what? Do you see what I am getting at here? This is not fantasy this is exactly what has happened in our secondary school. In year 11 alone there have been at least 20 cases, could easily be many, many more by now as school has now stopped informing parents. Transmission is 100% occurring in the classroom and wearing masks in a corridor is just a distraction.

If you have a cluster of cases in your school they are not going to reduce by closing the gym and the hairdressers down the road. They will continue to spread via families and siblings until they run out of hosts. This won't be every school of course, but it will be many. A 2 to 3 week school closure with everything else closed would enable a reset that allows kids to continue full-time in school. Anything else is just nonsense.

[MarshaBradyo]

@frozendaisy

Already rumbling rumours for the closure of schools, from some of the educational bodies.

Usually it starts as rumblings and ends up being policy within a few days.

Which ones? Where did you see it can you link

[cologne4711]

@frozendaisy

Already rumbling rumours for the closure of schools, from some of the educational bodies.

Usually it starts as rumblings and ends up being policy within a few days.

I really hope not. Other than Austria, other countries haven't closed schools, and Austria is keeping face to face education open to age 13.

[frozendaisy]

Already rumbling rumours for the closure of schools, from some of the educational bodies.

Usually it starts as rumblings and ends up being policy within a few days.

[TiersTiersTiers]

@Arosadra

I’m among those who don’t see the point if I’m forced to allow my children to mix in school.

But I have complied with the Welsh lockdown. I have driven to exercise but otherwise have complied.

Therein lies the problem!

[Lilybet1980]

@Mumofsend

The school thing doesnt bother me. Due to SDDs additional needs she only really leaves the house to go to school anyway. The one that1 reduces my compliance is good old Dominic Cummings. Nearly broke me not having support for the first lockdown. Then to hear the idea of putting family first... that's what I will be doing this time

You’re allowed support with childcare and caring for vulnerable people so I don’t see how you would be going against the rules if you get help.

[MarthaWashingtonsFeralTomcat]

Hit the nail on the head with the point about avoiding other stuff so that schools can stay open.

However some people have a different approach to risk. I see that I have 3 DC at school so I've "used up" my risk allowance, of you like. Everything else has to stop. Others (perhaps those bits of society who value formal education less, have bad memories of school or find it all a bit nanny-state) see that if they're being forced to take a risk they don't want to take, why shouldn't they take risks they do want to take.

Neither is right or wrong.

[Mumofsend]

The school thing doesnt bother me. Due to SDDs additional needs she only really leaves the house to go to school anyway. The one that1 reduces my compliance is good old Dominic Cummings. Nearly broke me not having support for the first lockdown. Then to hear the idea of putting family first... that's what I will be doing this time

[Sonnenscheins]

I’m among those who don’t see the point if I’m forced to allow my children to mix in school.

Don't you feel grateful that your child can go to school?

[echt]

That's exactly WHY they need to reduce the transmission OUTSIDE of schools. So THAT they can remain open. Do people really don't get that

This.

And it will be a significant reason for schools closing. As well as staff falling ill because the government says they shouldn't wear masks in class.

[Qasd]

I think it’s a bit if a mumsnet thing to be honest rather than necessarily society. Firstly because a lot of society doesn’t have school age children so my in laws, parents aunt are all talking about a return to lockdown since they are totally uneffected by the decision to keep schools open, secondly because much of what you may want to still be able to do “because schools are open” you cannot “why can I not go to the gym when schools are open” may feel legitimate but the gym is shut so you cannot!

I think we will get lower compliance generally this time, it was despite common misconceptions very well adhered to last time, but the public at large are feeling less committed to an action they know now doesn’t get rid of the virus and cannot bring them back the normality they crave, the times today had a piece on “people need to think the sacrifice is worth it and less people do this time” which I think is accurate but I think the school issue is only a small part of that due to the small percentage of the population that actual are effected by that decision.