I just can’t send my children back to school

[Ijustcantcope]

I have always been anxious about Covid. I’m vulnerable, DH is older and I help take care of elderly parents. I took my children out of school just before lockdown as I was bloody petrified.

I managed to send them back for their week in June and then in September although my anxiety levels were high. When they broke up for half term it was a blessed relief. I could finally sleep well and eat. I felt relaxed and happy.

But now as going back to school is looming I’ve got the sick feeling back again. I couldn’t get to sleep last night and had a good cry.

I’ve always had health anxiety around the children which was caused by 10 miscarriages before I had them, then 1 of them having a lot of medical issues. I had just got better with it and now this.

One child is desperate to go to school, the other one isn’t bothered. I am a supply teacher (not working at the moment) so am happy to home school them and they did well over lockdown. But I feel guilty about them missing all the things they love about school.

I just feel that if I knew what was coming e.g. if we were going to lockdown again or there was going to be a vaccine I could make a more informed decision. I’m just so worried about making a wrong one. Either way, it’s going to be shit.

What if the vaccine doesnt work and this goes on for years. I can’t protect us all then. Some days I feel like just going out there and catching it. If I end up dying or my parents do well then that’s it. If we don’t we can move on without all this worry.

I don’t think I can take much more.

And I can’t seek help for my anxiety. I’ve tried. Apparently someone will contact me for talking therapy within 24 weeks.

[MadameBlobby]

I really feel for you but it’s not fair to isolate your kids like this due to your anxieties. I am anxious and vulnerable as well and I can’t say I don’t worry but my kids need to go to school. It wouldn’t be fair on them to suffer due to my issues, that’s just MO tho

[Christmasfairy2020]

Can I just say. Husbands work has had an outbreak. The symptoms they have experienced are loss of smell.
Get the kids to school

[herecomesthsun]

Just an update on the situation for people who have taken their children out (I haven't so far).

Apparently, some letters have been sent out from the schools, some supportive, others unfortunately less so, However, there has not been a lot of actual action so far with respect to penalizing people in any way.

There is a petition here which is going to Parliament on 2nd November. It would be great if anyone who thinks ECV parents shouldn't be penalized could write to their MP in support.

The situation for the schools is not altogether clear, as it would be quite complicated to take action against vulnerable families who have a very reasonable human rights case to want their children to be in a safe environment just through what looks like the worst bit of a pandemic. This is probably why they are slow to act.

There are lots of people in this situation.

The government has also published various guidance about schools which may be of interest here.

Good luck and take carex

[IncidentsandAccidents]

OP, I feel for you so much. I suffered from severe health anxiety after I had my first child and I know how crushing and exhausting it is to feel that constant dread and panic. One thing I would say is that you don't need to make a binding decision for the next 6 months right now. None of us need to do that. Make a decision for the next week or two, then draw a line under it, focus on eating and sleeping well, then reassess.

If you do decide to keep your children home temporarily, I don't think for a second that you, or any other caring and responsible parents, will be dragged through the courts. There will be no political appetite for this and huge public outrage if it is tried.

Remember that those who shout the loudest on mumsnet are also probably the most anxious. Try to zone all of that out and focus on the people irl who love and care about you. One thing that is clear to me from reading your posts is that your children are very lucky to have you and will be absolutely fine whatever you decide

[Friendsoftheearth]

Op I have just read your update, and I really feel for you - you sound upset and I am sorry you are feeling so stressed with the pandemic.

What does your dh and friends think about the return to school? Are they broadly supportive of children being in school or do they feel the same as you?

I think you are right to consider the impact of your MH and anxiety on your children and how this might affect them. This does not make you a bad parent, it makes you a very good parent.
Your decision does not need to be fixed, why not take it week by week and see how you go?

Pointing out the legalities of taking your children out of school and not deregistering is important, because many schools will make no fuss about non attendance beyond a few kindly worded letters, and then you might find a more difficult and stressful situation emerging with the courts etc. The attendance expected in schools is very high, surprisingly so, even taking covid into account. It is better you are armed with the facts.

Do not take them out as someone suggested on the grounds of mental health of your children, this will not hold if it is proved your children are not clinically diagnosed with such conditions, and you will be exposed in court. You will be expected to provide a long and detailed medical report that spans months and years, not a few weeks from doctors etc.

I know we live in scary times op, you are perfectly right to feel worried and stressed about this, we all do to some degree.

It is my guess we will soon be going into another lockdown at some stage anyway, and you are perfectly placed to enjoy that time on your small holding! I wish you well, I hope you are getting plenty of support in RL and take care of yourself

[HazeyJaneII]

I know the point of the thread isn't children and their risks with regards to Covid, but please don't just assume that everyone who is concerned about how their children may be affected by Covid, is concerned out of some misplaced anxiety.

My concerns wrt ds, are in part of how Covid could kill him...yes, it is 'vanishingly rare', but ds is pretty rare himself, having a genetic condition that affects only about 120 worldwide.
My concern is also how covid could effect his underlying conditions, his scarred lungs, heart and chronic gastric condition...there are many unknown factors to his condition.
Another concern is that ds has been hospitalised several times as the result of contracting fairly minor illnesses, we would very much like to avoid hospital this Winter.
There is also the matter that people with neurodevelopmental conditions and Learning Disabilities have higher levels of avoidable deaths in general, after hospitalisation. For this reason ds has a hospital passport, updated at the start of Covid (as recommended by medical professionals) to reflect particular interventions that may be necessary, and to ensure that myself or dh would be with him.
A study in America showed that people with Downs Syndrome (similar health comorbidities with ds's syndrome) were 10 times more likely to die of Covid.
Another study showed...
Among American children and teens who died of COVID-19, a large majority had an underlying medical condition...CDC researchers found.
From Feb. 12 to July 31, 121 deaths of patients under age 21 were reported to the CDC, of whom 75% had underlying medical conditions, such as asthma, obesity, neurologic/developmental conditions, and cardiac conditions, while a quarter were previously healthy, reported Danae Bixler, MD, of the CDC in Atlanta, and colleagues.
116 went on to be admitted to critical care and 58 ended up on mechanical ventilation. In 52 cases, the patients were judged to be suffering from Multi-System Inflammatory Syndrome associated with Covid-19 (MIS-C), a condition similar to Kawasaki disease and Toxic Shock Syndrome.
Many of the figures wrt children and Covid are pre September, when schools were not fully open, it will be interesting to see how the schools opening have affected the numbers (which will hopefully stay low)

[OpheliasCrayon]

This is getting ridiculous. I'm not one of them but there are people on this thread who are terribly anxious about the situation and are struggling.

If you want to share actual real, checked facts about things then fine. But think about what you're doing. By quoting totally made up information and scaring people you're literally preying on people when they're feeling vulnerable.

Have some compassion, consider others and go away when you have some actual, helpful statistics.

[OpheliasCrayon]

[quote emxx20]@Quartz2208 what?!?! it doesn't matter if the numbers are low!!!!!!They still died what does it take a million of them to die. Theese are lost lives we're talking about heartbroken families and your all talking about the numbers acting like it's nothing[/quote]
It's much more likely a child would be stillborn.


And I have one of them.

You need to get your facts right before writing things which will panic people who are already worried.

[herecomesthsun]

@Scottishgirl85

This is so sad to read. I hope you seek help for your anxiety
Covid is not the most dangerous thing that could happen to your children, there are many 'greater' dangers out there. And Covid will not be eliminated, it will continue to circulate just like other viruses every year. Vaccines will help control it and life will normalise, but there will always be risk. It's just another risk amongst many.

This was not about the risk to the children, this was about the (real) risk to family, who are clinically vulnerable.

The danger for the children is losing a parent or a beloved family member, which is a real threat. Schools have been opened with little adherence to WHO recommendations, so there is a significant risk for vulnerable teachers and parents ( and to some extent vulnerable children).

The OP is someone who did well with homeschooling and originally would have liked to home school over the months ahead.

No doubt we will all learn a lot about the virus, its behaviour in winter etc over that time. Risks should appreciably decrease further as we gain more knowledge about the pathogen & its best treatment & we might even have a vaccine.

So the arguments about risk to children are slightly beside the point of the OP, which was more to do with the risk to children of losing a parent.

[Scottishgirl85]

For what it's worth I'm a scientist and my company are developing a covid vaccine that may one day protect your family. Please trust the science and educate yourself on the facts.

[emxx20]

@Quartz2208 just because the risk is low does not mean that there is no risk 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ it shouldn't be taken so lightly like that like it doesn't even matter I'm sure their families thought the risk was low too until it killed there precious children you cannot say that "it's not the worst thing that could happen if they got Covid" that girl is just so stupid she doesn't know that that child won't fall terribly ill or worse die from it no body knows it's a possibility never mind how big or how small fact is nobody knows so to say what she said is dumb asf

[Scottishgirl85]

You haven't read my previous messages. Nowhere have I said no kids died. Read the article. The risk is miniscule and only in kids with pre-existing serious illness.
Your language is awful and offensive. You care so much about children yet call me a spastic? Nice.

[Scottishgirl85]

I'm not saying 6 children dying is not terrible. They were sadly already with life-limiting illness but their loss is awful.
What I'm saying is if your child is otherwise well, they won't die of Covid. There are much bigger risks to children, and the OP previously sent her kids to school with these existing risks.

[Quartz2208]

@emxx20 the risk is very low to children, lower than many other things we deal with on a regular basis. I feel for those families I do but it is an agreed fact that COVID is worse the older you are. The risks to children not receiving education and being held back.

Can I ask a question do you know how many under 5s have died today? How many have died this year? Coronavirus is not by any means the most dangerous thing to children.

The risks relate to how much children spread it to those who are at risk, how much they add to community spread (the risks attached to the OP)

[Scottishgirl85]

Please read the BMJ article. That's fact, and includes all the numbers you need. What you are spouting is daily mail nonsense and you are not backing it up.
It is this kind of scaremongering that has got the poor OP in such a state in first place.

[emxx20]

@Quartz2208 what?!?! it doesn't matter if the numbers are low!!!!!!They still died what does it take a million of them to die. Theese are lost lives we're talking about heartbroken families and your all talking about the numbers acting like it's nothing

[Quartz2208]

[quote emxx20]@Scottishgirl85 you sound stupid be quite there are many children who have died from COVID [/quote]
No there are not

Here are the US stats the numbers are low. Particularly if you compared it to the number of deaths from other causes

services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

As it happens though that isnt the issue here the OP and her parents are vulnerable and she is worried they may pass it on

[emxx20]

@Scottishgirl85 lol are you being serious google it yourself so your trying to tell me that you honestly believe no children have died from Covid get a grip give your head a shake and educate yourself and open your eyes to what's been going on in the world 🥴🥴 do you think children have super powers and are invincible. No many many many children have died Covid kills people it doesn't discriminate doesn't matter what colour what age what gender, all races all age groups all over the world have had deaths It doesn't matter how big or small the percentage fact is children have died so you saying it's not the worst thing that can happen is absolutely stupid and Ignorant

[Scottishgirl85]

My reference is a BMJ study:

It covers two-thirds of all children's admissions in the UK due to Covid-19 between January and July and confirms what is already known about the minimal effects of the virus on children .

A "strikingly low" 1% of these 651 children and young people - six in total - had died in hospital with Covid-19 compared with 27% across all other age groups, the study found.

Eighteen per cent of the children needed intensive care.

And the six who had died had had "profound" underlying health conditions that had often been complex and themselves life-limiting.

Children with such conditions remained vulnerable to the virus and must take precautions, the researchers said.

But for others, the risk was extremely low.

[Scottishgirl85]

Please kindly provide references to back up your argument...

[wondersun]

[quote 3littlewords]@wondersun did that push to deregister come from the headteacher or the LEA? Its sad decisions like that are prompted so quickly[/quote]
The head, I think he could tell my concerns weren’t going to go away based on his reassurances about one way systems and wiping surfaces.
He was kind and I think he believed it was one of the only options - return, face fines/prosecution or de-register. I would argue constructive dismissal based on that choice.
By the time I spoke to LA a bit of time had passed, she sounded more panicked by the thought of de-registering and tried to bully me into returning instead.
I’m not sure when the supportive approach was meant to kick in, they must have missed the memo. Although surely a supportive approach can’t exist with the ultimate end game of fines/prosecution if you don’t do exactly what they say?
I’ve heard some schools have made the rules fit the right outcome but that takes bravery and a bit of spine. Philosophically speaking I know it’s not people’s fault if they’re lacking in that. We all are what we are up to a point I guess.
However it doesn’t feel like the time to accept luck of the draw!

[Inkpaperstars]

@Cam2020 was genuinely at a loss as to how to quantify a treebit.

By a bit I was referring to the time they have already had off, even maybe continuing to Easter hols or to the end of this school year. Further ahead I am sure OP can assess as and when, we are all playing it by ear here.

[wondersun]

[quote SheilaHammond]@wondersun My LA struggling for a number of reasons so need to be seen to follow the letter of the law, I think. Though if you actually ring them and speak to the Central team who deal with absence they are very nice and helpful. They’d rather not prosecute, if another way can be found, but making contact with them and having a discussion is the way forward, not just being absent long term. If you just stay away it might get dealt with more firmly.[/quote]
I agree and good advice. I am staying in close contact.