What's going on with Whittey?

[Barbie222]

England's chief medical officer refused to lower the thread level on the Nando's chart and we are stuck "transitioning" down from phase 4 to phase 3.

Charts showing alert levels disappeared from daily briefing?

Are we still following any science?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/02/chris-whitty-vetoed-lowering-of-coronavirus-alert-level

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@Crunchymum older people still pay taxes quite often and many in care homes pay for them , who in turn pay taxes and providing the hospital care and building hospitals to cope has also cost millions

[Crunchymum]

It is more about getting rid of the deadwood and concentrating on more viable options. Lose all the non tax payers and create an army of extended tax payers.

• I'm reaching here.
  
  But eugenics scares me. In essence sounds positive but in practice it is potentially genocidal.

[strugglingwithdeciding]

Same old few who have all the answers and know everything as they read a report , for everything anyone writes about this you can find another one to say the opposite
We do not know anywhere near enough as certain people are more prone to get this , this could be a reason we have higher deaths than some countries as we may have more older men etc or people in higher risk groups - obesity etc
There is so much we don't know and so much to learn , yes some mistakes have been made
But as for cuts to care homes most are private run and cuts have been made for years all political parties have been responsible
Wales nhs is run by labour and they don't have a great record either

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@crunchymum how would that work not exactly the ones reproducing are they

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@Sostenueto of course the Economy needs to be up and running how do you propose we pay for nhs and how can we continue to pay people at home it's not that simple , track and trace is up and then people are complaining that some of them haven't had to make calls yet as we have more than needed , surely that's a good thing
We can't stay locked down forever and even scientists can't agree some saying there won't be a second wave others there will
But we have to start getting back , Italy is , Spain is and there numbers are not much behind ours

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@twinnywinny14 well it's quite hard to find other countries excess deaths and we don't know what they are all due to yet not all direct from the virus

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@weeds no you can't say that as posters on here insist we do all the time despite the fact it's not true and the fact that other countries aren't all reporting the same so we can't fully compare yet

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@venuatiger effing appears of post like this with similar comments always

[Crunchymum]

And it's Whitty

[Crunchymum]

Surely you have cull the population before you start (eugenically) controlling it?

Just saying!!

[Needcoffeecoffeecoffee]

What Sostenueto said about freeing up underfunded hospital beds to even more chronically underfunded social care isn't conspiracy theory though.
Social care has been even more underfunded than the nhs, the staff undervalued and care homes are much more like community hospitals than where they were years ago when your granny wanted to go to live with some company and entertainment and a low level of care.

[Haffiana]

Wow. This has turned into the conspiracy theorists bar room, hasn't it?

I bet that would make Chris Whittey laugh.

[borntobequiet]

@Sostenueto good on you for telling it like it is.
People need to realise this.

[SecretSpAD]

@Sostenueto yes to everything you said. It was obvious from the outset that the NHS needed to be protected in order to stop any discontent about the years of austerity. NHS workers were put on a pedestal, given freebie meals and called heroes as a bribe to shut them up. Care homes were forgotten and lockdown happened too late.

It was also obvious that the CMO and CSA teams were put into the public eye so everyone knew who they were and so were easy to identify when the shit hit the fan and Boris needed a scapegoat. He knows that the civil service cannot get involved in politics so he knows that they will behave in public (only saw a little bit of tonight's briefing but Chris Whitty seemed to have a face like thunder and was reluctant to answer questions).

The public were always gojng to be the ones who ultimately could be blamed for any second wave, more deaths. We are too stupid to follow the rules but also too stupid apparently to not follow the rules. We are fed scraps to deflect us from the scandal and then we will be called stupid for taking advantage of those freedoms.

And now Boris is even blaming Keir Starmer for doing his job as leader of the opposition and questioning the PM and govt on the way they handled the matter.

[lucieee]

@twinnywinny14 excellent idea!

[Sostenueto]

In this coming second wave the minimum wage earners will be the ones at greatest risk not the ones working from home.
The world is changing more people working from home, shopping on line so no need for our high streets. Everything being done via zoom and Skype even reading papers on line. Cash becoming less available as cash machines dwindle, the age of plastic aided by this crisis has arrived. Those with manual, low skilled are not needed so much. Is this another vision of Cummings? Get rid of the old and the low skilled?

[Sostenueto]

Sorry for typos I have distonia and I can't be bothered to correct all but you all get the gist.

[Sostenueto]

Right the reason so many have died ( and continue to die) in carehomes and the community is the following.
A) for a long time social care has been on crisis before Covid arrived on our shores. Bed blocking because adequate care was not available in the community or in carehomes. This has been going on for along time because over the last 10 years money being put into social care has been almost halved by Tory cuts.
2) when Covid arrived there would be no way that yhengs could cope with the expected number of cases of this terrible disease without having to cut down the number of patients in hospital beds. So, the directive from thus government sent to carehomes and the NHS was to take as many from hospital pronto. These people were not tested for covid as there were not enough tests available and because bed shortages were so critical many arrived in carehomes and their own homes already infected from hospital with Covid.
3) the Nightingale hospitals had not been built and 111 were told to divert as many as possible from hospital admittances because it was imperative that the NHS did not get overwhelmed hence all operations etc stopped the huge deathrate because you had to be literally blue before you could get admitted to hospital because of lack of beds Ventilators staff etc. Why must the NHS not get overwhelmed? Because people would see just how underfunded the NHS has been over the last 10 years and how starved it was of vital equipment, resources and ppe due to these cuts inflicted by the Tory austerity measures.
4) it was as much a political decision as a national emergency for the government to make sure that measures were put in to save the NHS. All the above instigated by the government, including threatening letters sent to the government about withdrawing funding if they did not take patients and forcing all in carehomes to sign a DNR ( which is absolutely awful) so those in carehomes would not be took into hospital All of it put in place to save the NHS. So many deaths due to the Tories. There will be inquiries after all this and BORIS will have to face up to it.
5) in March because the government did not put quarantine measures in to those arriving in this country unlike all other countries who shut their borders around 10,000 people arrived in this country with Covid from countries ride with it notably Spain. There have been repeated calls for the government to publish SAGES advice on not quarantining these people. So far up and including today this has not materialised.
The list can go on and on but the bottom line is that no matter how much the government tries to blame the scientists and even you Joe public ( which they will do when second wave happens by saying you did not follow our guidance which is deliberately vague and confusing) sensible people will see who really us to blame. The economy has always come first. When Cummings was asked at a dinner on the 13 the March what the governments strategy was on Covid he said ' the economy, and if a few old people die so be it'.

[effingterrified]

Like I said, I wonder why you reserve your anger for the people reporting on the 60,000 deaths caused by this government's inaction, but are apparently yourself fine with that inaction.

I I don't know what word other than 'kill' you would like me to use, for government policies like sending sick patients from hospitals into care homes which the government also had chosen not to supply with PPE.

Would you prefer 'murder'?

[VenusTiger]

@effingterrified look at the article - this is amongst many experiences families have been trying to get out via. SM (as news won't interview them). Also, I take it you're not aware of the studies China released in April, regarding the 30+ strains of the virus, the most deadly ones being in Western Europe and Washington state USA.

[VenusTiger]

@effingterrified you've completely misrepresented what I was saying. Again, making allegations such as you have is downright disgusting. No-one else on this thread has suggested that the government planned to kill anyone, and premeditated as you have also suggested - you've used the term to kill - I'm not angry in the slightest, I'm disturbed by the hatred and bile. If anyone said what you have done about anyone else, they'd be in deep shit.

[FrodoTheDodo]

"Eugenics is the study of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable."

It's selective breeding over generations to improve 'genetic stock' of a population. It's nothing to do with letting the elderly die. That's a completely different thing.

[B1rdbra1n]

I look forward to reading Chris whitty's book🙂

[effingterrified]

VenusTiger, Dominic Cummings has admitted to being a eugenicist, as has Johnson. Another Spad brought in by Cummings got sacked not long ago after it came out that he was heavily into eugenics.

I don't know why you are so in denial about something everyone knows.

Yes, it is horrible, but don't blame the messenger.

Your anger should be directed at a government that is happy for its old and sick to die, and is responsible for the unnecessary deaths of 60,000 do far.

Let's not forget that Thailand has a bigger population than the UK, got the disease sooner than us, with less notice, and has had only 57 deaths.

Those 60,000 deaths in the UK were not inevitable. They were the result of deliberate political choices made by our government.

We should all be angry about this.