I don't understand this idea of all the teachers going into school to look after the YR, Y1 & Y6 children

[UndertheCedartree]

The DC will want to be in their classroom, with their teacher. Otherwise I see little point. Aside from the purely childcare point. But I mean in terms of the benefit to the DC.

Surely it makes more sense for the DC to go in maybe one week in, one week off with a thorough clean at the weekend. The survey at my school suggests around a third of parents won't send their DC in so schools may be able to get away with splitting classes in half.

That's without even considering where will all the extra classrooms come from considering the vulnerable and keyworker DC will still be in? And that the teachers of other year groups will still be sending home work and supporting their usual classes.

[ineedaholidaynow]

How do they ‘man’ the toilets without being part of the bubble?

[FATEdestiny]

magic money tree

I'm a governor and have sat on the finance committee (agreeing school budget) for a 350 pupil LA primary and also for a 1200 (low income) MAT secondary.

What do you know about school budgets?

Do you understand the absolute expectation to have a contingency in the budget? And to run with a supless year end?

Do you know the amounts involved here? You realise school budgets can be in the millions. Plus access to lots of grants for school and building improvement. Honestly, the costs involved here, while definately causing a budget dent, will not wipe out the year end supless. Not by a long way.

Even in my secondary which is very, very low income will manage financially.

[Tanith]

"so if teachers really want to be back in the classroom why are there so many ‘it won’t work’ responses and virtually no constructive suggestions."

It's the Government that has vetoed many of the suggestions made. Perhaps it's time they started listening to the teachers about what will and will not work and looking at implementing what is best for the schools themselves, not what looks best in the daily bulletin.

[FATEdestiny]

ineedaholidaynow why are you finding problems rather than solutions?

I hope you're not a teacher

How do they ‘man’ the toilets without being part of the bubble?

The bubble is for children groups - the children's groups won't mix. Please read the guidance. I'll say that again because if you want opinions on this, it needs to be informed - read the guidance. Adults will mix and will be expected to social distance from each other. Children will not mix with children outside of their 15.

[thunderthighsohwoe]

@FATEdestiny I’m jealous that your rooms can be split in two!

Our school is an old house, with bits added on during the Victorian times. We currently sit three children to a desk (pre CV19) and still several have to get up each time a child towards the middle or back needs the toilet!

Records show that the rooms were created when class sizes were around 10-12 children. We’ve been desperate for years for someone to tell us we need to knock it down and start again!

Re the lunch and toilet break issue, we’re ‘eating’ with our bubbles, and primary teachers rarely get to go to the loo anyway due to not being able to leave a class alone, so it’ll just be a case of retraining our bladders 🤣

[TorysSuckRevokeArticle50]

There's no way it will work in DDs school.

There are 3 classes of 30 children in each year, so just bringing back R, yr1 and yr6 means they will need to find 27 teaching spaces instead of the normal 9.

Which would work until they start bringing back any other years, at which point there would be no capacity.

It's a fantastic but cash poor school, they will not be able to hire portacabins to increase space or anything else that has a high financial cost.

The idea that schools would just be able to magically double or triple their capacity to make these bubbles work is ridiculous.

[FATEdestiny]

Adults will mix and will be expected to social distance from each other

I'm feeling the need to clarify this for the inflexible of mind, because what I wrote was ambiguous. I mean staff can mix with each other - like in the staff room for example. They don't have to never mix. But they should socially distance from each other and follow hygiene rules.

[FATEdestiny]

thunderthighsohwoe - some of our rooms can't be split, but some can. One thing is add is how much extra space you find when you remove unnecessary furnature from rooms. All our classrooms for example have try cabinates around all walls. These can come out and resources centrally stored. Likewise painting drying stands - they can go. Library corner etc. It is surprising how much square footage of floor space you can find when emptying rooms.

[SionnachRua]

It won’t be for clsss teachers to decide who’s in their bubble, it will be SLT making those decisions.

I'd be shocked if teachers aren't given input on it. They know the class best - even things like social dynamic between kids should be thought about when making groups.

Re the lunch and toilet break issue, we’re ‘eating’ with our bubbles, and primary teachers rarely get to go to the loo anyway due to not being able to leave a class alone, so it’ll just be a case of retraining our bladders

Jesus. So contravening the rules on breaks while at work then? Poor English teachers, horrible work conditions to go back to.

[PurpleDaisies]

I agree @SionnachRua. The head wouldn’t have a clue about personality clashes, ego needs extra support etc in my classes. I’d fully expect to split the kids up myself. The most someone from slt would do is glance over it so they can say they had some input.

[SionnachRua]

Actually having read up on it you don't seem to have the same break rules as us in Ireland. I'm surprised by that - I figured that both countries having been in the EU for so long, we'd have come under the same regulations.

I really think it is inhumane for staff to work a full day and have no bathroom break

[ineedaholidaynow]

I’m very aware of school budgets @FATEdestiny and I am sure there are many schools that wouldn’t be able to afford what your school is planning.

Yes schools are meant to have reserves but actually they shouldn’t be maintaining huge reserves as that money is meant to be spent on the children.

[notchickenagain]

Our classrooms have just enough room for 5 tables of 6 children plus a carpet space. We have a shared art/resources area with the other 2 classes in the year group so space is tiny. 8 max to a classroom which is doable with 3 year groups but by the time everyone's back, the social distancing rules won't be possible.

[Notsafetogo]

My Headteacher asked me to split my children into bubbles as I know who would miss friends and who wouldn’t cope well with being taught in the hall or with a teacher they don’t know...it was quite tricky!

[Randomnessembraced]

The NHS have been given extra funds and new hospitals have been built. Where schools need extra outside hand washing facilities, portaloos, washing machines/dishwashers to wash reception toys, the council and government should provide these. As for additional hours for cleaners, again, the funding should be provided. I think a good teacher can come up with engaging safe "toys" for reception/year 1 - things like cardboard counters and lego etc can be washed in a dishwasher. Businesses are putting on their thinking caps and spending extra funds to make their environment safe. Schools can do the same if they are given the money. Also, it is my view as a parent that any teacher who would like to wear PPE should be allowed to do so. With the right explanation for my child, he will won't mind at all! Finally, as regards other year groups and lesson planning - collaboration between teachers including across academies can be key here. In one of my children's independent school the teachers across the year groups have split up the workload so for example, one is teaching most of the maths lessons for eg 50 kids and marking it. That is much easier than teaching lots of different subjects.

[Mynydd]

I'm in Wales so thankfully don't have to think about this for a few more months. But can anyone tell me if the kids in their bubbles are allowed to play? Or do they need to stay 2m apart and sit at a desk all day?

[Snuggles81]

I've written this on another thread but thought I'd share here.

As a teaching professional the way the government has set out changes for our youngest children is my biggest issue.

In reception and many year 1 classes the children don't sit at desks, the best way for them to learn, for their well being and mental health is through play, physical interaction with their environment, peers staff. What we are being ask to do is change this environment. How will this have a positive impact on their well being? We have to remove all resources which can't be easily 'wiped' over, children shouldn't be sharing resources, selecting their resources. A teacher my job isn't just about English and Maths, it about making children independent learners, to explore their environment. Best practice for this age group isn't sitting at a desk away from their peers.

The government are using the line that this is about children's well being but everything they have put in their guidance goes against the development of children and doesn't support their well being.

I am happy to go back with my class, I am not happy to make the dramatic changes for these young children without them having a proper transition into this new way of learning which goes against what they truly need. Why can't every child in primary school spend some time (at different times for each year group) so they build up some confidence before September. Why this need to be back full time and expecting all to cope, we are changing how children learn, being told it's in their best interests yet we aren't being given time to prepare our children.

[porktangle]

I'm surprised there isn't covid budgets being released for schools like there are in the NHS. Not going to think about which magic money tree they got it from but a lot of money was thrown at the NHS to ensure all 'the plans' were fulfilled (not just the emergency stuff, things like thousands of laptops to ensure wfh for example)

[user1000000000000000001]

@Mynydd My DD has been in throughout. Within the groups kids are fully free to play. They are not mixing the groups.

[OliviaPopeRules]

Our school is talking about one week on and one week off as there is no other way they could fit everyone in and even though lots are saying they won't send their kids back they have to assume they will because people may change their mind after a week. Unless a teacher is not in our kids should have their class teacher because of the 1 week on/off.
For all this saying it's just about childcare I don't think that is true. Firstly school hours childcare will not allow masses of people to get back to work. Vulnerable kids in year R and 1 are particularly at risk. For kids whose parents can't or don't (for whatever reason) help them at home or are caring for other kids/adults at home (not even taking into account kids in abusive homes) missing months of school at this early stage could really impact on their life chances. Unfortunately that is not a few hundred children but more like thousands if not tens of thousands. That is not a criticism of teachers and school staff who want to be safe but it is a fact that cannot be ignored when looking at the whole situation with schools.

[FATEdestiny]

're splitting classes

It's interesting that the guidance says "initially plan for 100% attendance". The inclusion of initially in the sentence is significance.

I wonder if closer to June schools can split based on numbers actually coming into school. Makes sence, I'd guess attendance will be in the region on 40%-60%. So if we were to assume 50% attendance then existing classes may end up being no more than 15 without being split.

Just a thought.

[Mynydd]

I agree with you @Snuggles81. My child will be going from nursery year into reception in September. If he's just going to be expected to glue him bum to a seat all day and learn phonics or something I'd rather not bother, although realistically I can't afford to quit my job. Hopefully, hopefully the R Number locally will be low enough to allow for something that looks like normal early years education. Otherwise he's better off at home with me.

[Mynydd]

Thank you @user1000000000000000001 that's a real relief to hear, as I'm sure it is for you

[user1471468296]

I will be teaching Y1 and setting work online for Y3 (in my PPA time, so it will be much less than I put online now).We have been told we definitely won't be cleaning toilets! But as I don't have a TA with me, I won't be able to supervise children at the loo outside times when we go as a whole class. Not sure how lunchtimes will work... I'm looking forward to going back in with R/Y1/Y6 but not so happy if we're back up to big classes 3 weeks after that.

[ineedaholidaynow]

What you may also have to remember is that some of these guidelines weren’t in place when schools reopened for key worker children.