Why are people not outraged by the testing scandal?

[Justagame]

Given that testing is part of one of the five standards that need to be met to justify easing restrictions, we have to be confident that it is as the government report it to be, surely?

The Prime Minster said in his announcement, "hundreds of thousands of people are being tested every day".

Statisticians do not believe the government have ever met the target, even once.

On May 10th for example, 37 000 people were tested. The government reported that their target of 100 000 tests were met on 10th May.

They're also counting postal tests, and won't confirm if they then count them twice when they receive them back.

They're also including antibody tests in their daily figure, despite not being a diagnostic test.

The daily figure is incorrect on many dubious levels.

Is it not very simply, fraud? Are people just unaware of this or is it a level of denial because we all want things to be safer and getting back to normal?

*The source for the stats quoted is 'More or less' on radio four:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000j2r7

[Humphriescushion]

www.hsj.co.uk/free-for-non-subscribers/hancock-challenged-over-covid-testing-numbers-by-stats-watchdog/7027620.article

What niteflight said. If they had just said they were increasing and working towards it, rather than fudging it!

[TabbyMumz]

I dont think there is a testing scandal. I think it's hard to get people to go and get tested. To start with, if you are not feeling well, the last thing you want to do is drive for an hour to your nearest test centre, then drive an hour home again. It is better now, there are more centres and people can arrange it on line. Plus testing is best done days 1 to 3, and within days 1 to 5...so if staff get ill on a Thursday, and think it's just a cold, but then feel worse over the weekend, by Monday, its day 5!!!

[NiteFlights]

I think it comes down to the fact that it's ok to miss a target, even to admit it's not possible yet to get that testing capacity. But, it can not be ok to lie about it. We're not accepting that are we, surely?

Yes.

And it’s not okay to obfuscate and fudge the numbers because that leads to what you see on this thread - 100,000 tests not 100,000 people tested etc. Trust is eroded further and further.

Precision and honesty from the govt would build trust and confidence so much more than bandying about numbers that are then picked apart.

I don’t like the govt but I’d respect and trust them much more if they were more straightforward - even if what they were telling me wasn’t what I wanted to hear.

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

Again blaming the govt for not using the university labs when according to the labs themselves their offers of help were continually rejected by PHE. And the govt were told that PHE had it testing covered until it became blindingly obvious that they hadn't. This is where a decentralised system works better, if our system was regionalised and for example NHS SW were running twice as many tests per capita than any other region then the differenct systems would be examined and improvements made to other areas.

[TheGreatWave]

X posted there.

[TheGreatWave]

Until the testing methodology is accurate they are a total waste of time. It doesn't matter how many are carried out a day if they are not being done correctly. (Self swabbing for the first time and in a car is not an acceptable basis for making plans)

[chomalungma]

The post-out tests are fairly dubious at best: RNA degrades if not processed rapidly, and it's a pretty invasive test to take on yourself, so there's a high likelihood these won't be

I wonder what data is available on positives from people who have done home tests vs self administered at at test centre vs administered by a professional.

Saying that - it seems that some of the people who have been doing the tests at drive in places have just been trained to do the test. Hopefully they have had good training.

[cushioncovers]

As for the testing I work full time in the Nhs (not frontline) but the nearest testing site is over an hour away from my home and we are expected to go and get tested in our own time which is virtually impossible with my shift patterns and home life. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[AndwhenyougetthereFoffsomemore]

I listened to More or Less, and it was very well done, but if you are interested in this rabbit hole, I recommend signing up to HSJ, who broke the story about testing I believe: their covid coverage is free access at the mo. For those saying it doesn't matter/we can't force people to be tested: without a real sense of how prevalent the virus is in the community (including asymptotic and those with mild symptoms) we simply cannot make logical decisions about how to progress, when and where any further lockdowns are needed. This data really is vital.

Whilst they have ramped up the testing, drive-through test sites only work if you have a car (less likely amongst poorly paid care workers and supermarket staff); AND have spare time to drive to the test centres AND are poorly enough to think you have covid but not so poorly you want to stay at home in bed - they simply are not accessible for many people.

The post-out tests are fairly dubious at best: RNA degrades if not processed rapidly, and it's a pretty invasive test to take on yourself, so there's a high likelihood these won't be accurate.

NHS labs were clearly not ready to handle the level of testing needed and the government took a very long time to work out how to roll out to make use of the obvious alternatives of uni and private labs. And now it looks like the data integration between NHS and non-NHS labs has been further bungled: www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/exclusive-test-data-from-commercial-labs-going-into-black-hole/7027619.article

[cushioncovers]

I'm not outraged because my expectations of the government being able to save me or help me in this pandemic are extremely low. Government is just a bunch of people most of which we didn't vote for that are trying to do what's expected of them in a situation that is new and different from anything else we've ever seen. You can't just magic up tests, equipment and trained people to deal with a situation that didn't exist a few months ago. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[DippyAvocado]

The target was tests not “people tested”.

So what is the 100,000 supposed to signify?

Even if they do 100,000 tests per day, it's not going to reach the stage where lockdown can be eased permanently until they have efficient contact tracing in place.

[chomalungma]

So much for public health being the priority, just game playing politics, as usual

It's also been quoted in terms of protecting the NHS - and the measure was the number of ICU beds available. Simple to measure.

But they took their eye off the ball with care homes - so just caused an issue down the line.

[chomalungma]

I know 'more or less' doesn't reach out to a wide audience, but you would hope the media might pick up on what was revealed

Another More or Less fan

I didn't know about the name of the 'law' before - but I have seen the effects of it in many places.

[Justagame]

Chongalungma, I think that's exactly it, the government is falling into the irresponsible trap of Goodheart's law. So much for public health being the priority, just game playing politics, as usual. Sigh.

I know 'more or less' doesn't reach out to a wide audience, but you would hope the media might pick up on what was revealed.

I can see from posters replies here that a small few are simply ignorant of the facts and some are just accepting of the dishonesty.

[TravellingSpoon]

I supported one of our service users to get a test last week. We had to drive quite a way and when I go there I thought it would be really busy. There were plenty of gazebos up and plenty of staff ready to do the testing but only one person in front if us and noone else being tested. That was at Boots Head Office.

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

The test numbers released are actually quite detailed. On the 16th May 37k tests were made by PHE, a further 67k were made by external agencies and 31k pillar 4 tests were made which are some kind of research tests used by various agencies to see how far the disease has spread within the community.

The blame for lack of testing lies with PHE and we would still be nowhere near providing the number of tests required if private labs had not got involved. Many of the "private" labs are university research depts, they were desperate to get involved from the beginning but were continually rebuffed. And it is from one of these labs that the Oxford vaccine is being developed.

www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public

[chomalungma]

So...what was the problem again? Oh yes you don't like the government.

I wonder why they don't publish the number of tests carried out, the number of positive and the number of negative tests.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 'number of tests carried out' does not equal the number of positive plus the number of negative tests.

I have no doubt that fudging will go on to reach 200,000 tests.

[okiedokieme]

@justanotherneighinparadise

Milton Keynes has been operational for over 6 weeks. There's been equipment breaking, cutting edge robots.

[okiedokieme]

The testing capacity is there but 1. Not everyone with an appointment turns up to be tested, same days it's down to around 50%. 2. Not everyone with a home test returns it. 3. The testing facilities have had teething issues with the robotic equipment. Would be outing to explain why I know!

[WhoWants2Know]

I've seen so many complaints both on here and facebook about couriers never returning to collect the samples for processing, that I think the number "tested" is mostly a PR exercise. It won't correlate to the actual number of tests that are properly carried out. And without any tracking or tracing, I don't think the test numbers mean anything much.

[Dontknowhowtohelp1]

I am angry OP - or rather I feel helpless in a horrible way.

And as others have said, it is test, track and trace that will help us get out of lockdown, but I don’t think the government has the ability or will to do this properly. I have no faith in them at all.

[Bathroom12345]

I have checked the government website a few times to see what availability there is. Always tests in England but not postal ones. Nearby to us as well. Maybe there isn’t the demand?

[Nameofchanges]

There are no at home tests currently available, so if you don’t have a car you can’t get tested.

[LastTrainEast]

I can't see the real use of these tests anyway since you can be infected the next day. I expect it will help statisticians and that is something, but some people talk like they make people safe somehow.

[LastTrainEast]

Justagame you just said there were 126 064 tests on a particular day. I'll take your word for that, but while that is strictly speaking not 'hundreds of thousands' it is more than a hundred thousand and the actual numbers are available since you are quoting them. if you are quoting them then they are not being kept secret.

"They're also including antibody tests in their daily figure, despite not being a diagnostic test" Again they told you this? You didn't send agents into the offices to smuggle out the data?

So...what was the problem again? Oh yes you don't like the government.