Very little discussion on the lack of non-covid NHS

[sunshinedaisyfatrat]

Last night was the first time I saw a news bit from a paediatric consultant saying they were gravelly worried about the lack of children presenting to hospital etc. We've all heard that outpatients have been cancelled, no ENT, no dentistry, rehab stopped, operations stopped, chemo halted, lack of face to face GP appointments etc but very little reported on regarding the long term effects of this. Hospitals are having few strokes / heart attacks presenting etc. If you have covid and a stroke you get placed on a covid ward and receive no stroke care. It's just awful. Poor nursing staff can't be jack of all trades and know the intricacies of all client group needs at all times.

In my hospital all of the above have stopped bar high emergencies which could result in an admission. We don't even have an outpatient / ENT / paeds department now because it's been repurposed as the covid entrance / assessment area. Lots of people being redeployed but some are still only in the process of shutting it all down and going through redeployment training. This is in place for the long haul and not just the 12 weeks.

How will the NHS ever go back and pick up the work it was doing? All of the above was stopped to ensure covid patient numbers are kept just under the capacity threshold but that won't go away as long as covid is around and cases still occur. Particularly so when lockdown is lifted. Face to face appointment still won't go ahead as transmitting is still a risk and aerosol generating procedures will still be a risk.

Sorry, very rambly, just surprised there hasn't been more reporting / stories / concerns about this whole side of the pandemic.

[Jourdain11]

I will consider it!

[Misty9]

@Jourdain11 I think a blog on what's happening to you right now would be very well received love the lipstick comment!

[Jourdain11]

@Misty9 Ah, thank you - that's so nice of you! To be honest, I just feel very, very lucky to have been picked up. I get the feeling that it might have been very much not a good thing if I'd left it a few more weeks. That's kind of why I'm not asking MN HQ to move my very un-coronavirusy thread to another section - because if even one person reads it and thinks, "I really shouldn't put my symptoms off till after lockdown", it would serve a purpose!

Funnily enough, I have thought about blogging in the past, but never got round to it! I'm not convinced that my daily life would currently make for riveting reading... although my nurse is absolutely awesome and brilliant comedy, so it might be worth a read just for her oneliners! Today she told me that she loves the masks because she's saving an absolute fortune on lipstick 😄 Definitely a glass half full person!

[HoffiCoffi13]

Thank you Itis6oclocksomewhere

[Itis6oclocksomewhere]

HoffiCoffi13 I hope that your appointment goes smoothly. Best wishes and I hope all is well.

Rereading my post, I should make it clear that it's the specific department my DH needs to go to isn't accepting referrals. I imagine some departments are business as usual.
We are also trying to be positive in that the GP feels that it can wait until later.

[HoffiCoffi13]

I think I’m lucky (or unlucky, as it suggests that they think it may be serious) that I spoke to the GP on Monday who referred me to hospital for further investigation, the hospital phoned me on Tuesday and I have an appointment today.

[Itis6oclocksomewhere]

Our GP is offering telephone appointments and they will see you face to face if they deem it necessary.
My DH had a telephone appointment and the GP said in usual circumstances he would refer him to the local hospital. However they're not accepting referrals. It could be a new symptom of an already existing condition or it could be a symptom of cancer. We don't know and until things get better we are in limbo.
My heart goes out to people who have shared their stories above.

[Uygop]

I've been treated by a nurse who is a last year nursing student, and by a doctor who is a 2nd year medical student. Obviously drafted in because of Covid.

[Uygop]

I'm in hospital at the moment, in Scotland. I waited 1 hour for an ambulance. They did a test and referred me to A&E. There was almost no wait in A&E. It was very quiet. Several tests were done quite quickly. There's plenty of room on the wards. There is a "Covid hub" which then sends patients to a different hospital, as this one is officially non-Covid. But the Covid hospital is the high tech one which does surgery.

[TwistyHair]

@user1497207191 I’m so sorry to hear that. I’m sure you’ve tried everything. Have you gone to your MP? Press?

[Namechangervaver]

@user1497207191
That's appalling. I'm so sorry 💔

[Baaaahhhhh]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/20-000-cancer-patients-will-be-sent-to-private-hospitals-mnbfrgwpt

Sorry, I don't have a paywall token, but this looks promising. Although I agree, that 20,000 patients is probably a drop in the ocean of treatments usually done.

[user1497207191]

My OH had a very high chance of surviving his cancer for 10+ years with treatment but they've just cancelled his treatment, so he'll be unlikely to survive the Summer. At least with Covid, he may not have caught it and may have survived it if he had caught it, but with the NHS shutting down, he's no hope at all without treatment. The "cure" is definitely worse than the disease for him. The oncology dept have basically washed their hands of him - they won't even return phone calls anymore.

[Hidingtonothing]

I'm finding it all pretty terrifying tbh, my uncle is receiving end of life care as a result of a combination of him not seeking treatment quickly enough because he was worried about catching the virus and the hospital not doing any operations.

He has stage 4 cancer and a terminal prognosis anyway but they'd said 6 months and he was responding to chemo so we may have had a little longer even. He's been in horrendous pain for over 3 weeks, unable to eat anything but wouldn't go to hospital because of the virus.

He's now in a hospice, they've diagnosed a separate issue with his bowel which could have been operated on had he gone in when the pain started but the hospital are 'not now doing any ops' (direct quote from the hospital via the hospice doctor) and he's too weak to withstand the anaesthetic anyway after 3 weeks delay in seeking treatment so they've removed his drip and are 'allowing nature to take its course'.

Most people I've spoken to seem to feel we effectively don't have a health service for anything other than covid right now and I can't really blame them when people are being told hospitals 'aren't doing ops'. I know that's not the only reason in my uncle's case but it is one of the reasons the hospice have given for the decision to allow him to die.

[Stilllivinghere]

Not really, if we weren’t in lockdown- what would the numbers be???

We can’t win either way.

[dyscalculicgal96]

DD's speaking value appointment is cancelled.

[Misty9]

Which is exactly why I'm suspicious of the government's motivations for all this...

[BamboozledandBefuddled]

You're reading it right @Kokeshi123 The 'treatment' is going to kill more people than the disease at this rate.

[Kokeshi123]

OMG, Bamboozled, you beat me to it! I think we were posting at the exact same time.

[Kokeshi123]

I'm feeling concerned. I have just seen this on Twitter:

twitter.com/d_spiegel/status/1249986522692096003

Based on the latest data from the Office for National Statistics (which just came out), there appears to be a very sharp rise in non-CV19 deaths. That graph is alarming!

I am looking at the ONS data ( www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending3april2020#new-analysis ) on which that graph was based.

Total deaths are an 6,082 increase compared to the five-year average. It appears that only 3,475 of these were ascribed to CV19. Or am I reading that report wrongly? (It's late at night over here and I am feeling quite tired)

The New York Times reports the possibility of a similar phenomenon in the States.
www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/well/live/coronavirus-doctors-hospitals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html

[BamboozledandBefuddled]

Just seen this on the BBC www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52278825 Week ending 3rd of April there were over 16,000 deaths registered - 6,000 more than 'normal' for this time of year. Of those extra 6,000 only 3,475 mentioned Covid 19. The article then says 'It could be that cases of coronavirus are going undetected or other factors related to the lockdown and outbreak are having an impact, such as people not seeking treatment for other conditions or mental health deaths going up. 2,500 extra people dead in one week but not from the virus? What will that figure been in a couple of months?

[Useruseruserusee]

Yes I worry about this too. I have a toddler with a complicated health condition, thankfully he was reviewed by his surgeon in Feb so we should be OK for a little while. I’m also fortunate enough to know the warning signs for him and to know when he needs to be admitted.

[BamboozledandBefuddled]

Some of the posts in the thread @Misty9 linked to are terrible. And it's really upsetting to see some people saying "I know it's not really important" because it bloody well IS!!

[Kokeshi123]

The drop in air pollution levels might PARTIALLY account for a fall in heart attacks and strokes. I don't see where all the appendicitis etc. cases have gone to. Perhaps it's harder to spot things right now. Parents are harassed and busy trying to work and homeschool at the same time. Kids showing warning signs (crankiness, sleeping badly, poor appetite) are perhaps being attributed to stress, lack of outdoor time and their interrupted routine. There aren't other people around to bounce opinions off ("What do you think?" "Not sure, maybe get it checked out to be on the safe side..."). And there is so much unpleasantness around, online and in real life, towards anyone perceived as "breaking rules" in any way---I think people are afraid of getting nasty reactions if they ask online for opinions or turn up at a hospital with their child.

[DPotter]

I think it's very dependent upon your area.
Our local hospital has a separate 'cold' entrance into a temporary A&E and there are 'non- covid' wards for anyone needing admission. Cancer treatment is on-going and outpatients appointments are being carried out by phone and in certain high need cases outpatients are still being seen.
In our area plans are being drawn up to provide urgent surgery (to begin with) in hospitals where they will be no covid patients.

I know ambulance response times have actually improved locally for both covid and non-covid call outs.
My other half had a screening outpatient phone call last week and has been given an appointment to attend the hospital next week.
we've heard from our dentist that emergency dental services will be available soon in a central location so that staff can have the full high level PPE.

It's bad but plans are being put in place to get back to some degree of normality.