Spreading on the wind? And in water?

[KatieGoesKaboom]

Genuine (and probably stupid) questions, I'm not trying to panic anyone. I may be more paranoid than normal due to going outside yesterday for the first time in 3 weeks.

Am I right in thinking that a single viable virus finding its way into your eye or mouth is enough to cause an infection? Or does it need a big dollop (in virus-sized terms) of virus-laden fluid?

I was walking the dog last night in the wind and it occurred to me that we've had sand/dust on our cars blown all the way from the Sahara before, so virus-laden fluid droplets can probably be carried a lot further than 2 metres in a wind.

So if someone was to sneeze on top of the Eiffel tower would a billion virus-containing droplets be spread, however thinly, over a wide area, and a single microscopic droplet land in someone's eye a mile away?

Similarly, I believe that corona viruses can live in water and untreated sewage for some time. Would light spray blowing from a waterfall or weir be a potential danger if the water carried a considerable amount of waste? I'm thinking of the Mersey in particular.

[OnlyJudyCanJudgeMe]

You seem very convinced of this for someone who's asking for other people's opinion.

[Saz12]

If it was airborne or waterborne then we’d have seen a different pattern of spread.

It’s OK to worry about this awful situation. But your imagination is running away with you.

[KatieGoesKaboom]

You seem very convinced of this for someone who's asking for other people's opinion.

I want someone to convince me otherwise.

It's obvious that if someone coughs nearby it will be carried further if a strong wind's blowing it away from them - and that could be the slipstream from a bus going past or anything.

What I'd like to know is whether, in theory at least, it could be carried a long way by a very strong wind, and whether one single virus is enough to cause an infection.

[Flossie44]

Katiegoeskaboom - I don’t think what you’re asking is silly. At all!! I think it’s a sensible scientific question. I too would like to know the same. It’s being inquisitive. Not scaremonging at all. People who say it is obviously don’t question enough

[YogaLite]

I wonder whether starting with being infected with a single virus vs bigger exposure is a question of time it takes for it to multiply. When BBC show the diagrams how virus infects, they talk about virus invading a cell, then multiplying and infecting more in time, not instantly.

So could it be in theory that people who have it but are asymptomatic at one point of time could still become ill later (?).

Does anyone know how long it takes for a single virus to multiply and move on to next cell/cells?

[slartibarti]

Does anyone know how long it takes for a single virus to multiply and move on to next cell/cells?
Everyone's immune system is individual to them, there's no one size fits all.
There's disagreement about the idea of "viral load".
I wish it was true that low exposure to the virus would mean less severe illness but the virus can multiply so rapidly in some people that even minimal exposure could cause severe illness.

[Deelish75]

When all this started I remember a doctor/expert saying it was airborne but only for 3 hours max and it would start to descend to the ground as soon as it was expelled from a person.

In the last week someone has started a thread saying the WHO have said it is NOT airborne.

I’ll be honest I don’t know what to think 🤔

[dementedpixie]

www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/03/825639323/scientists-probe-how-coronavirus-might-travel-through-the-air this is quite interesting

[Covid]

That's a really interesting article. I personally think it could be airborne given the healthcare workers and bus drivers that have died.

[MummyPop00]

I think the OP has a valid point.

I’ve come down with symptoms 5 days ago despite absolutely keeping at least 2m away from other people at all times.

Been in the house/garden, home delivery of groceries for the last 4 weeks solid.

Only thing I’ve been doing is bike rides every other day. Occasionally I’ve ended up in the slipstream of another cyclist. I’ve ended up swerving very wide to overtake them, but I’d say in retrospect if you are following behind a runner or cyclist expelling air (with force) and you are following a matter of a couple of seconds behind, there is a fair chance you will breathe some of their expelled air.

The point about breathing other people’s vape clouds is a good one.

The government’s 2m guideline is to realistically SLOW the spread of the disease, not stop it & of course there is less chance of spread at a 2m distance than there would be at a more typical 1m talking distance.

[Flossie44]

That article is worrying!!

As is your post mummypop00. Have you any idea how you could’ve caught it?! Have you got family members going in and out? Could it have come in on food deliveries?
Really hope you feel better soon. 💐

[MummyPop00]

No extended family members/friends have been in the house for over a month.

Yes, there is a possibility it could have come from grocery delivery, but all the drivers have been at the 2m talking distance. So, if I have caught it from delivery it would be from the goods (as we haven’t washed the goods, only our hands upon receipt)

So it’s either expelled air from fellow cyclists/runners or unwashed goods/mail. No other transmission route possible in my case as I’m a sahm & OH works from home. We took kids out of school a week early, so they have been off for 24 days including today. I’ve had symptoms for only 5 days.

[ssd]

@KatieGoesKaboom

Heavier than sand?

I don't know, I've thrown my weighing scales out as I broke them they don't match the carpet.

[MetalDog]

I think this gives a really clear explanation of the difference between airborne and droplet (and other types of) transmission:

eportal.mountsinai.ca/Microbiology/faq/transmission.shtml

[RuffleCrow]

Op you're getting worked up about speculative nonsense you've dreamed up. "Dollops" and "droplets" and bears, oh my! Have you considered taking up a hobby?

[hoodathunkit]

People in quarantined cruise ships where they have nil contact with anyone but breathe in recycled air are highly likely to contract the virus.

Viruses are absoultely tiny. You can fit millions of them on a pin head. They are not heavy like grains of sand and they can be propelled through the air by coughs, sneezes and, if close enough, by breathing.

[hoodathunkit]

[hoodathunkit]

The influenza virus in the above video is a coronavirus (note the lipid spike or "crown" - thus the name)

[hoodathunkit]

This is educational and easy to understand

[noblegiraffe]

What are your symptoms, mummy? Lots of people have ‘had symptoms’ and tested negative, so could it be something else like hayfever?

[Keepdistance]

@03MummyPop00
Interesting similar here.
we had as a delivery last Tues then both dp and I had sore throat by Fri then cough sat.
However I did wipe down all shopping (Though I guess may have missed some)
And quarantined all but fridge and freezer stuff)
We may have been within 2m but no coughing/sneezing etc. And would be unlikely to be for 15min as they were off getting the stuff.
It is very odd for both dp and me to get ill at the same time.
We haven't been at school since 2w before lockdown so 6th mar. And only other place was a mot The week after but he did gel his hands and wipe down steering wheel etc. Also obviously I wasn't there.
We haven't been been for walks. Only in the garden and 2 home deliveries in the last month.

However dd2 did have a fever 29th feb for a couple of days then a green snotty nose and then a cough that has lasted till now. I then had a fever overnight on the 9th mar. And dd1 a sore throat the following day. I then had a tight chest for weeks(but think that was heartburn).
But that is all weeks ago.certainly well exceeding the 5-14days. Even exceeding the maximum of 28days.
So basically makes no sense. Neither I or dp have a fever with this now and it started with a sore throat so both unusual symptoms.

We've been in the garden so possibly close to where someone had walked.
We've even been quaranting post.
So either it's something from dd2. Which has a long incubation period. Maybe 5w. Or it's still contagious via her cough.. But makes no sense how dp and I got ill on the same day.
Or we've managed to catch something in the house for 3+w with only post and deliveries.

I mean air does also come in to a house from outside they aren't airtight so all the people walking past etc? Or if you are a terrace or semi?

[Keepdistance]

Have to say though over countries were testing to check people were no longer contagious. Whereas here obviously we are not testing even to confirm illness let alone clearance of virus.

They also have 14days off after symptoms not the 7 here if you live alone. And they are all going out as little as possible.
Everyone wearing masks would have reduced all the possible modes of transmission.
Wind
Coughing /sneezing from more than 2m away.
Less of the food would have been breathed on.
Same with post.

[MummyPop00]

I really don’t think this is Hayfever. I have no history of it, I’m in my mid 40s & pollen counts where I am (North West) haven’t been especially high.

Symptoms were/are a quickly developing dry cough coupled with on & off wheezing/periods of breathlessness on the lungs. No fever. No headache. No nasal congestion.

[goingoverground]

Am I right in thinking that a single viable virus finding its way into your eye or mouth is enough to cause an infection? Or does it need a big dollop (in virus-sized terms) of virus-laden fluid?

We don't know yet. Some viruses do have an infectious dose of 1.

So if someone was to sneeze on top of the Eiffel tower would a billion virus-containing droplets be spread, however thinly, over a wide area, and a single microscopic droplet land in someone's eye a mile away?

No. Air currents/wind could make a tiny difference eg droplets travelling 2.5m instead of 2m.

The influenza virus in the above video is a coronavirus (note the lipid spike or "crown" - thus the name)

It isn't. It just looks a little bit similar. The bacteriophage looks a bit like a space invader but it isn't.

[dementedpixie]

Common cold is a coronavirus but flu isnt. Some of the stuff I read suggests a few hundred virus particles would be an infectious dose.

www.newscientist.com/article/2238819-does-a-high-viral-load-or-infectious-dose-make-covid-19-worse/