IF you believe coronavirus is a conspiracy...

[OutComeTheWolves]

... do you believe Boris is in on it?

I've read and heard a few people saying the it's a conspiracy to use fear to remove a lot of our freedoms in one fell swoop. But, unless he's a very good actor, Boris Johnson seems to be actually really reluctant to remove our individual liberties. So I was just wondering what people thought?

As a disclaimer I should add that I don't think it is part of a huge plan to do this, but I could maybe believe that it was an accidental leak from a lab or something. I think when something like this happens it's human nature to look for reasons why it happened because the thought that a random quirk of nature could cause these problems worldwide is terrifying.

[Playmistyforme66]

I think that it is easier for many people to believe that this was planned, that someone was behind this and is running the show than to just accept the truly chaotic nature of life on earth and that we are just little more than frightened animals in the face of natures awesome power.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"it may also be that genetically they are more susceptible."

If that was the case, you'd be seeing the same thing in the countries of origin. If there's a genetic factor, I'm presuming there's an environmental one as well.

For ordinary patients it could be socio-economic, but that doesn't explain the high number of BAME medics who've died of it.

[LilacTree1]

I have pondering this

When we did pandemic planning and saw the NHS would fall short, they just thought social control would buy them time.

[toryandproud]

"we" didn't mix humans and live animals in wet markets

[sweetheartyparty]

I think nature is pretty effective at creating a virus that can kill us. It was always just a matter of time before another pandemic after the Spanish Flu especially if we keep mixing humans and live animals in wet markets.

[toryandproud]

On BAME there is evidence emerging that it affects BAME disproportionately, but at this point it isn't clear why - it may be environmental (poverty, density, location, profession) but it may also be that genetically they are more susceptible.

Chinese/Japanese people could also be relatively at lower risk too, but again it isn't clear why at this stage.

I don't believe it's a conspiracy but as usual I think it has been incompetently handled by a whole host of actors, including China, the WHO and several UK institutions. Hanlon's razor... never attribute to malice that which could instead be down to stupidity.

[Reginabambina]

@Iwannabeadored20 I found a good article on the matter for you in case you are interested which also covers the Arabic perspective www.jstor.org/stable/162959?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

[Iwannabeadored20]

@Regina

Thanks, very interesting

[Reginabambina]

@Iwannabeadored20 different kind of Islam. Uyghurs/other Muslims from that part of the world are Turkic peoples, they tend to take a more liberal approach to Islam and they’ve often looked down on Arabs in the past. I don’t think there’s much love from the Arab states for these small ethnic minorities.

[BeetrootRocks]

Yes sure but most people watch bbc, itv etc and the whole discourse around this is troubling.

I've got Al Jazeera on now, highly recommended for anyone who wants top notch reporting with a global view.

[Reginabambina]

@BeetrootRocks there have been a few articles in the past week that use deaths per million.

[Reginabambina]

@CocoCorona Islam isn’t a race. As it stands most Muslims in China are of the Eastern European/mongol/Chinese variety. They’ve also been successful killing/ethnically cleansing them for almost a hundred years at this point. I really doubt they’d design a virus to kill black/south East Asians because they don’t like their Muslim ethnic minorities (along with everyone else who isn’t Han Chinese).

[dkl55]

Midnight - well they might have thought it would affect them if they believed that the people being hidden were a danger to their society / way of life. And that's not excusing it that's saying when people believe something is a threat, they can behave very oddly. Someone on here was quoting Goering saying: Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.

[Lumene]

In the UK, the first deaths of healthcare professionals were all black and Asians. And the list is growing.

A larger proportion of Doctors, and of Londoners, are BAME than the rest of the population, which could definitely be part of it.

[BeetrootRocks]

Lilac yes and also a sense of losing control, everything is suddenly unknown.

That's very stressful and so people reach out for control elsewhere.

It's a terrifying and eye opening lesson in how authoritarian governments get support.

[BeetrootRocks]

I mean, the situation in Syria hasn't gone away. What about on the ground in India? How are things in Africa? USA we get death count wow more than ours. But the population is 10x here. Why aren't they doing it per 100000 of population or something?

It's all very odd and a bit disturbing tbh.

[LilacTree1]

If anyone has read Sudhir Ventaskesh on gangs, it actually reminds me of that a wee bit - people feeling part of something, getting a sense of purpose and belonging.

[BeetrootRocks]

Agree again op.

This is all very eye opening.

Give people a really good threat, and some rules, maybe someone to blame, and off you go.

I have found the attitude on MN towards, ironically, children, really grim. Also people with MH issues and single parents are getting hammered. Also a general lack of empathy for those who are in different, more difficult situations.

The news is also v interesting it's basically just UK now, poor stats, scaremonger, rara let's all work together remember the war. Propaganda I would call it. What happened to all the other news, decent journalism etc?

I'm watching BBC but also Al Jazeera to get a more rounded picture.

[LilacTree1]

Midnight “ Ignoring a hidden person hiding in a neighbours attic would have no affect on you if you weren't complicit.”

But if they said “how could you not know” you were pretty much going to get thrown in jail.

[midnightstar66]

I do agree people are taking it way too far though

[midnightstar66]

I don't think you can compare the virus situation to ww2 . Ignoring a hidden person hiding in a neighbours attic would have no affect on you if you weren't complicit. People ignoring distancing has a knock on affect for us, our friends, loved ones and the wider community

[OutComeTheWolves]

Yeah that's one thing I've found interesting, how willing people have been to police other people's behaviour.

When I've read about neighbours spying on neighbours in places like post ww2 Germany, I've always found it quite peculiar. But actually now I think I have a better understanding of that mentality now just from a lot of the behaviour I've observed during this lockdown.

[LilacTree1]

“ I'm not really of the belief that the virus is a conspiracy, but it is interesting that it's brought almost the entire world to live in a semi-authoritarian state, with similarities to China - particularly the possible increase in surveillance.”

Yes and the shock of people wanting to be controlled.....it’s a golden opportunity for power hungry politicians.

[Iwannabeadored20]

Thanks @1984

Food for thought. I agree that the virus will provide a convenient cover for the camps - it could easily be explained away unfortunately.

[1984isnow]

@Iwannabeadored20 money will play a big part. Saudi have invested billions into China, also vice versa.

China also provide significant funding to the UN,I believe , which will be why there has been a lack of criticism from them. And the world will follow suit.

There seems to be willful ignorance to a lot of what China do, amongst those who hold some power (see my earlier post about human rights council. Even some Chinese people are critical of this decision)

When the virus was starting to be reported more widely, concerns were raised by relatives who had left China, that it would eventually be used as a cover for deaths which occur in the camps. I don't know if that's the case, but I wouldn't be suprised, as the issue generally doesn't seem to be widely reported.

Censorship has also occurred in the past. One case I remember was someone mentioned it on TikTok, and got suspended almost instantly. She did eventually get reinstated after some backlash. Incidentally, TikTok has been described as a national security threat, due to possibly being loaded with Chinese spyware. I'm not sure if that was ever proven, but I wouldn't be suprised if the topic just wasn't probed enough, because it's China and people ignore it.

I'm not really of the belief that the virus is a conspiracy, but it is interesting that it's brought almost the entire world to live in a semi-authoritarian state, with similarities to China - particularly the possible increase in surveillance.