Trying for another baby without agreement of dp?

[scoobysnax]

I am considering another baby by subterfuge...does anyone have experience of this?

[scoobysnax]

Any helpful advice in planning the ultimate seduction?

[Mum2Toby]

Tell him you promise not to hit him this time if he tries it on!

[Bozza]

Yes scoobysnax I agree that it is not really deceitful. If he knows you are not using contraception and doesn't use any himself....

Those of you who have talked your husband round. How did you do it? What were the sticking points? How long did it take?

[Bobbins]

OOh yes...do please tell us HOW

[judetheobscure]

bozza - you'll see from my earlier post it took two years. But I didn't talk him round - I made it clear that I wanted another and if he brought the topic up I would tell him I still wanted another - I had no particular reason - just that I always wanted 5. He had had enough of the baby thing, wanted to start getting out and doing more (so he said), wanted me back for him more (we all know what that means). But in the end, with a little help from his best friend, I think he realised that it wasn't going to go away. I have assured him that 5 will be the lot - I have no intention of going for 6 or anything silly. And I think he now views it as maybe delaying things for another year or two, but a small(ish) price to pay for a happy wife.

[judetheobscure]

just to clarify - I didn't ever nag him about it- hardly spoke about it at all - and I didn't get my dh's friend to talk to him either - it was very much a shock to me that he came round at all - didn't believe him for a few weeks!

[tinyfeet]

I agree with most on this thread that this really should be a joint decision, but I have somewhat different reasons. I have a somewhat helpful DH right now - he does try even though he will never be as helpful with DD as my mother or MIL are. I know for a fact that if DH did not want another child, and I got pregnant that DH would NEVER help out. I am now approx. 7 weeks pregnant - completely unplanned - I am depressed about it, and DH is ecstatic. The one thing that gives me a little bit of comfort is that I know DH will be very helpful with this next child, as he is already pampering me. So that's my humble opinion -for what it's worth, I would definitely consult with your DP, scoobysnax.

[Linnet]

Our Dd will be 6 this year and I have been wanting to have another baby since she was 3. But my DH was very against the idea of having any more and had a huge list or reasons. When asked if we were having any more and I said that he didn't want any more people would say "you can always just have an accident" but I just couldn't bring myself to do that as it felt like I was betraying him. I don't think I could have lived with myself if I'd gone behind his back. I think personally that to have a baby should be a joint decision.
But I'm happy to now announce that DH has changed his mind. I'm not sure what changed his mind, maybe the fact that practically all our friends are having babies or have just had babies but at least I now know that when we start seriously trying later in the year he will be 100% with the idea.
If your husband doesn't want to use condoms and knows that your not using any other contraception then he can't be that much against the idea of another child. After all as an adult he knows the risks.
good Luck

[EmmaTMG]

Mines abit of a long story about talking him round but basically after about 15 months of putting foward LOADS of good reason for another one and getting nowhere I was on the verge of giving up but in the car on Boxing day last year I started the conversation again, still getting pretty negative replies, there was a bit of a gap in the conversation and DH asked what I was thinking about. 'You know what I'm thinking about' then surprising to me tears welled up in my eyes as I said 'I always think about it' and he says it was that that changed his mind. Quite sweet really I suppose, and I trully had no idea the tears were coming so they were very real.

Sorry to everyone who read this before but it's probably the most amazing thing that ever happened to me as I really was convinced I couldn't change his mind. I think I've typed this story about 100 times and I still love telling it.

[pie]

I'm 17 weeks pregnant and it was a genuine accident. I have wanted another child since I met my DH 3 years ago, we are already bringing up my DD from my previous marriage.

I found out I was pregnant a day before my period was due, a hunch telling me to do the test. I have had a coil in for 2.5 years, and the coil was still there when I fell pregnant. I had the coil removed when I was 8 weeks pregnant.

The only reason I had a coil was that my DH DID NOT WANT MORE CHILDREN IN THE NEAR FUTURE. Capital letters as I can not stress enough he did not want another child, perhaps even ever.

His intial reaction was total disbelief, infact I think he thought that I had the coild removed without telling him. He only realised that it was a genuine accident when he saw the coil on the ultrasound.

It TORE us apart for weeks. I almost left him as I found his reaction so hurtful. He wanted me to have an abortion, told me that he couldn't handle it. Infact he cried for days and we couldn't even make eye contact. Things are alot better now and he is getting used to the idea. But the fall out is still going on and we are considering counselling after some of the things said and the feelings that have been brought out.

What I'm trying to say that after having had a genuine accident and having had thoughts about getting sneakily pregnant I'm glad I didn't deceive him. To be going through what we have been through and to have had the guilt would certainly have ended our relationship. I can't be anything but totally honest with him and the truth would have come out.

I agree with others who have said that you will need his support and unless you know exactly how he will react you will be taking an awfully big gamble.

Hope I haven't ranted too much!!!

Just wanted to point out that sometimes potential fathers lose the plot rather than dance for joy!!!

[Cha]

I can only reiterate on the notes of caution out here. My dp has a 16 daughter who he was tricked into having - his ex made holes in the condom and didn't tell him until she was 4 months pg - and he is still, all these years later, often beside himself with rage at her deception. He loves, loves, loves his daughter but can never forgive his ex for what she did. He was 21 (she 19) and he said she took away his youth. He had a responsiblity that he did not want and to be honest, was not ready for. His daughter has suffered as a result, and the two have had horrible, horrible fights about the fact that he was not there for her enough. And of course, he can never tell her why things were they way they were - she blames him for walking out when she was four etc etc and thinks of her mum as the hard done by one.
All of this may not appear that relevant to your situation, but I know, from loving a man who has been conned, that the anger and betrayal doesn't dim with time. Any little thing can bring it all back. And although your dh will love his child, loving it does not mean he will not resent it. You also take great risks with his love for you - if he were ever to find out. Whatever his reasons are for not wanting a child, they are valid and to be respected, just as yours are for wanting another.

[boogs]

The way I see it is that if you are in a stable, loving relationship, having another child is a good thing, even if only you (the mother) want it at the time of conecption.
I may be being a bit simplistic, but once the child is born both of you are gonna love it because it represents your love for each other. Yes, sleepless nights, nappies, etc are very hard to live with at times, but overall babies are the most wonderful thing in the world, and the rewards we get from caring for and loving them are limitless. Why is it so bad if a woman wants another child?
If we waited for our dh/p's approval every time we made a decision we'd be back in the dark ages. We've got to take control here. Not so that we can 'trap a man' into staying with us, but so that we can exercise our right to have the final say in what is largely a woman's realm.
At the end of the day having children is an investment for the future, for both parents. Its hard at the beginning but before long mothers and fathers both reep the benefits.
Unless your rich, money is always a concern whether you've got 1 or 5 kids. Buying expensive clothes and toys doesn't neccessarily equal a good upbringing.
As long as you're prepared to do most of the work (what's new?)then I don't see why a little 'deception' is so bad.

[Wills]

Boogs - sorry but on this occassion I do think you're being too simplistic. I'm sure the father will love the child however its how he feels about the mother after the decit that is more of an issue.

I've known all along that my dh does not want more than 2 and likewise he knows that I want 4. We agreed a compromise of 3 but each of us hopes. Since I'm currently pregnant with what will hopefully be our no2 he hopes that I will want to stop after 2 and I hope that he will think children are fabulous and want to move to 4. I would not however go against this agreement and if 3 is it then 3 it will stay!

My dh would never forgive me if I decieved him - the trust would be gone forever. If an accident happened I have no doubt that it would put our relationship under serious stress.

I'm fortunate in that I tackled this prior to even getting married (my dad only wanted 1 and my mum had to use deception to concieve my little brother (9 year gap)). However for those that haven't rather than use deception (subtefuge - whatever you want to call it) I would discuss this with your partner and point out that in fact they are putting the relationship under serious pressure by not agreeing a solution. If my dh at 2 children refused to move to 3 then I would explain that he was the one putting the relationship under stress and flaty refuse to have sex using any form of contraception.

scoobysnax - Goodluck with whatever route you decide to use

[boogs]

Wills, I'm in the same situation as you in that I want 4(Godwilling) and dh wants 2. We've talked about it, and I don't get the feeling from him that he'd flatly refuse to have any more than 2, but in a ideal world he'd stop there. I hope he wouldn't try to lay the law down after having two.If he did I'd have to use subtle forms of persuasion.
Wouldn't refusing sex with contraception be stressful for dh? Isn't that exercising your right to have the final say?

[boogs]

BTW, I don't agree with serious deceit, but if your dh/p knows you want another baby he's gonna know that every time you have sex your hoping to get pg, isn't he? Deceit is a strong word and I don't know if any woman who values her relationship with her dh/p would want to jeopardise that, no matter how much she wants another baby.
Is any of this helping Scoobysnax?

[Bozza]

I only want two and can't even get him to agree to that...

[boogs]

How so, Bozza? Does he not like kids ?

[scoobysnax]

Boogs, you're right that deceit is a strong word, and I am not planning any kind of deception - I'm not talking about pretending to use contraception. The idea was just not to bother about contraception.
Both of us will be pleased not to bother at the time, the difference would be that I would be hoping for a pregnancy and dp would be hoping not...
However I learnt from dp yesterday that his job is not going too well - it will either pick up soon or he will have to find a new one. This has made me feel too insecure about having another baby until I know his work is on a sound footing again! Maybe next month!

[Wills]

Ah but Boogs I'm not questioning a woman's right to have the final say just the manner in which its done. I would be open about my desire for another child and explain that I not going to wait and that if he wants sex he going to have to do it minus contraception and understand that it is likely to result in another life. If scoobysnax is truly saying to her partner "you can have sex but I'm not using contraception of any form" then he still has a choice - so why call it subtefuge.

What I don't agree with is doing it in a "devious"/"subtefuge"/"deceitful" way because I do think that the man should have some right over whether or not he helps to produce life. In this country if scoobysnax's partner left her because of this then the law would still hold him accountable - yet he had no part in the decision making process. Is that right? Surely in a relationship you should do things together otherwise why bother with the relationship. If a woman truly did all the work then why not use a sperm bank? It achieves the same thing - a new life.

Please don't get me wrong - I don't think women should beholden to men on when the fall pregnant and if scoobysnax is going to tell her partner that sex will only be unprotected then he is still making a concious decision of sorts.

[Bozza]

Boogs - I dunno really. Well I suppose I do because he has told me. I assumed it was a money/lifestyle issue. Although we are reasonably off (IMO looking at the income thread maybe not...) and DS is now 2 yrs 3mnths so we would be receiving nursery grant for him by the then. And in the early years I don't think a baby would cost much other than in childcare - all equipment etc still OK, no need for extra cot, double buggy etc.

[boogs]

I do hope my prattling hasn't put anyone off. Off what?
Sounds like you've had a good think Scoobysnax!
Wills, I agree with everything you've just said except this...(sorry to go on, but I do like a good heated debate-not that either of us are heated!)
When a man has sex with a woman he is making a decision. He knows that she COULD get pg. So If he is held accountable by law to a subsequant pregnancy, that is at least fairer to the mother, who might be just as suprised that she is pg. Too many men run off!!!!It's not an ideal situation but is there to protect mothers who are left holding the baby, which is a good thing.
I don't think mothers do ALL the work just most of the practical stuff.
What will you do if dh refuses sex without contraception? (Don't mean to pry here!)

[boogs]

There's always hope Bozza. Good luck!
Call me stupid but you only save money on clothes/toys, etc if you have a child the same sex as the first. This came to me in a flash of light and the angels sang!
We're trying for no2 and it's amazing the practicalities I've overlooked in my desire for another buba. Wake up, wake up!

[Wills]

Boogs - if he refused sex - hmm interesting, you mean if he still refused sex after I'd tried short skirts, low cut tops etc etc. After all I don't mind admitting to trying virtually everything in the book just not lying - that's the line I'd draw. It would depend on how passionately I wanted another. For instance if he'd refused to move to no2 then I think it would have driven us apart and I would eventually have left him. I would see us as uncompatible in the end. I want a largish family he (in this scenario) obviously wouldn't and I couldn't move forward. I equally feel that if the man truly doesn't want a large family, that forcing it on him that you are equally driving a wedge between you. I don't understand couples where the man states from the begining that he doesn't want children and she obviously does. I do however understand where couple go ahead and have a child and then he decideds - "god that was hard work lets stick to one" I suspect my dh would easily fall into this category so I'm glad I'd already got him to agree to 3. This is wrong but I don't think that lying about it is the answer. Discussing it and getting him to see the degree to which it upsets the woman is the way forward.

I don't know that when I get to 3 I wont passionately want more. If I did then I know I would not use "subtefuge". I would discuss it with him and then examine my desires hard - if I still wanted more then I suspect I would leave him. I'm hoping like mad that that is not how I feel and that either I'm content with 2 or 3 children or I can make him understand that my need is great enough that on this issue he must give way. But... it would be an open discussion, and honest - no matter how heated.

[Wills]

Agreed - that I'm enjoying the discussion but am hoping it wont get too heated and that I'm not particularly upsetting anyone. At 5.5 months pregnant my dh tells me that my "heating up" time is amazingly short at the moment.

[Bozza]

Boogs - I sort of see what you're saying but I've saved all the baby-gros and vests which were mainly white/neutral and I spend very little on DS's clothes. Can't see my MIL not going mad on little girl's clothes given the opportunity. That compared to £325 a month childcare is insignificant. And DS has a hoover so there you are - a "girl's" toy

See where you are coming from though and thanks for giving me the opportunity to practice my arguments!