Angels and Rainbows-remembering our angels and hoping for rainbows

[Star0909]

New thread ladies. Come in here for support.

[missalexandra]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/2180519-Angels-and-Rainbows-remembering-our-angels-and-praying-for-rainbows

No idea of I've done it right hope someone else can do it if not x

[MademoiselleG]

(We need a new thread!! Is anyone on a computer who could start a new one and post the link please?)

[MademoiselleG]

Ruby, the thought of your husband kissing H's urn and wishing her a good day just made me start sobbing uncontrollably on the bus - on my way to fertility clinic acupuncture. It's so sad. Such a vivid image. We love our children so much and miss them with such strength.

I'm having a very tough day. Not feeling too brave at all. Thinking if the Earth and Lake families today and all our lost angels.

[Rubyshoe]

Lake the comments from your friend and counsellor have left me speechless. I am guessing your 'friend' doesn't have children? The counsellor though is absolutely unforgivable. She should know better. Do you feel you actually need to "work through the dynamics with you and DH" or is this coming from her? Grief doesn't fit a standard pattern. Will be thinking of you and your angel today. It's a lovely day here and DH has just kissed the urn H ashes are in and told her to have a good day playing with all the other children in heaven and we love her, I still find it hard to listen too in many ways but I think all our angels are together x

Earth thinking of the earth family today and your beautiful F today.

Not a good day today for any of us. Reading about the day Lake and Earth are facing I m sitting here sobbing. I do wonder sometimes if we will, ever know the reason why we had to give our children back when others don't. X

[Ducky23]

Thinking of you lake

[kayleighferrie1985]

Lake i too am shocked by the comments made to you by your colleague and counsellor! As critter said you'd imagine someone in that field would know that one person will process things differently to another (and also would respect that). I really hope that your next session goes as well as it can.
I'll be thinking of you and your DH tomorrow. In response to your questions about photos, we took pictures of Ben's grave with the flowers the day after, as we already had pictures of Ben from in the hospital. I'm sending love and strength xxx

[OwlinaTree]

Will be thinking of you tomorrow lake, I hope the funeral goes the way you want, and you can express your feelings.

Thinking of you too earth, hope you have a peaceful day, give your rainbow lots of cuddles.

[MademoiselleG]

Lake I am totally gobsmacked - what kind of a bloody comment is that?? Do you think you'll want to see her again or ask for another one? Urgh. You've done so well today.

My dh took a couple of pictures of G's casket and asked me to take one too as his camera isn't as good as mine. It felt weird at the time but I'm glad I have them now. Could you perhaps ask someone to be the dedicated photographer, someone you know (takes good pictures) will be sensitive about it? My stomach is churning for you. My thoughts will be with you all day. I am so, so sorry you have to go through this. It's so incredibly unfair.

[Ducky23]

Thanks guys

Lake, will be thinking of you tomorrow, we didn't have any pictures although I have lots of pictures of dd's grave.

[CritterPants]

More I want to say, at work and will update later properly, but lake - what the actual fuck with your counsellor and colleague's remarks. Idiocy knows no bounds, but I'm especially and at the counsellor, she should know better about how people process shock and grief. How bloody dare she. I am raging on your behalf.

[LakeOfDreams]

Glad to hear your scan went well Ducky I really hope I get to the point I can think about TTC again. I can't imagine how scary it must be although I'm sure your anxiety will have no effect on the baby.

On the topic of my rubbish friends, a work colleague actually messaged me on FB over the weekend and said I know just how you feel my dog died over that weekend! I was so surprised I didn't know what to say!!

Had my first counselling session today. Was going as OK as possible then she was talking about the moment the midwife couldn't find the heartbeat and said "you're very matter of fact about this. Are you the sort of person that expects bad things to happen? You sounds like you were waiting for something to go wrong." For some reason it really annoyed me, I'd had a wobble just after the baby shower where I thought gosh what if it all goes wrong as we have all these beautiful clothes and then put it out of my mind. I'm seeing her again in 2 weeks she wants an insight into the dynamics between me and DH and she wants to work through "the moment of trauma" as she kept calling it when we first realised E had died. I'm not normally the sort of person that's comfortable talking about how I'm feeling I like to process things by myself so I guess it's progress that I managed to talk for an hour about it all.

Just been ironing DH suit for tomorrow and realised I'm at a weird in between size where maternity clothes are too baggy but my prepregnancy clothes are a bit tight. Had a little moment earlier as I can't work out what to wear for the funeral as none of my smart clothes fit. Probably a weird question but did people take photos at their funerals?

[kayleighferrie1985]

ducky i'm so sorry you've had a worrying day, and despite the extra worry at the hospital, i'm glad everything is ok. I'm sending hugs your way xx

[MademoiselleG]

Oh gosh Ducky ...How scary this must have been. I am glad you all is well in the end but how very stressful.

Earth thank you so much for the link. I hope tomorrow is gentle on you. Know that you, F and DH will be in my thoughts throughout the day.

Lake - I hope tomorrow is ok. It will be awful. But you've made it this far. We will all be with you and your family. Sending strength your way.

Love to you all x

[Ducky23]

Had a major wobble today convinced myself I couldn't feel any movement all day (am 25 weeks now) so went to hospital. Almost had a heart attack when they couldn't find a heart beat on the Doppler so sent me for a scan, thank god everything was ok .

Don't know how I'm going to cope for another few months and that makes me worried in going to make my baby very anxious

Sorry for the self centred post am
Just feeling a bit .... Meh!

Waves to everyone x

[EarthWindAnd9]

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0972424113/ref=pd_aw_sims_2?pi=SL500_SS115&simLd=1&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

This is the book, obviously I haven't needed it but the reviews are quite good and it might help your little ones x

Ps-we need a new thread soon-any volunteers?

[EarthWindAnd9]

Mad and Betty, it's so so sad to hear about your daughters and how they have reacted. I'm sure I've heard of a book aimed at toddlers to try and help them understand. I'll see if I an find it an ill post.

Lake- I really hope tomorrow is the how you want it to be (without ever wanting a funeral for your baby). Sending you love, light and strength for the tough day ahead.

[kayleighferrie1985]

Mademoiselle and Betty i'm also with you regarding Kate's pregnancy. When i read it i admit i did feel a pang of jealousy. Also, i dislike the way the media make a big hoo-ha over the sickness she has. Now i am aware of how awful that particular kind of sickness can be (i supported my best friend through it with her oldest), but do the media realise how may women suffer with that level of sickness, but just get on with life? (If you can't tell, my friend didn't realise the sickness wasn't meant to be that bad as it was her first). Sorry rant over

Waves to all xx

[BettyFriedansLoveChild]

Totally with you on the jealousy over Kate 's second pregnancy, Mademoiselle. The mean part of me keeps thinking 'I bet they'd notice if she had a placental abruption.

[MademoiselleG]

Oh gosh Betty - this has made my hair stand on end. I have just suddenly realised that DD does this too: everything, EVERYTHING is a baby. She cares for everything as if it were a baby. Including 'nothing': she will run towards the window and 'pick up' a 'baby', then come and show it to me. Spine chilling. I wonder if she can see things we can't...

I also have such empathy for those of you with rainbows already - you really do know what you are missing once you have a child. And those people with their unhelpful comment along the lines of 'At least you have dd / at least you know you can get pg / at least you know you're able to conceive' can bugger off. I am so angry that this whole thing has turned me into an envious witch. I can't even rejoice for Kate announcing her 2nd pregnancy today. All I am thinking is: "why her and not me? She only just had a baby!". I used to be a kind, compassionate and positive person. Now I know I can also harbour feelings of envy, resentment and anger towards people who clearly don't deserve it.

(Sorry - I am really very self-indulgent today...)

[BettyFriedansLoveChild]

Hi Mademoiselle, thanks for posting the conversation with your daughter. It's helpful to know how other people's children are dealing with this - there isn't much information on this kind of situation available on the web. DD1 comes out with odd things all the time, e.g. 'Our baby died - we need to buy a new one'; 'If we have a new one, will this one die as well?'; and (heartbreakingly) 'When 'O' is a big girl, then she can come home to us'. It must be so confusing for them, having a sibling but not having a sibling simultaneously. Immediately after DD2 died, DD1 started 'spotting' her sister by the side of the road, in trees, etc, and scooping her up in her hand as if she was a precious fairy and carrying her around with her. More recently she has stopped doing this and started saying 'I can't find my sister anywhere' - I though that this was a sign that she had successfully worked through her understanding of the situation, but then the role play started, so she is obviously still baffled. And yes, its funny (and sad) to think that she will almost certainly never remember having a baby sister that died.

[MademoiselleG]

(a random smiley face sneaked its way into my previous post - definitely not intentional!)

[MademoiselleG]

Ouch missalex - how utterly frustrating...and totally unsurprising. Lake, I am so sorry for your beautiful daughter and so sorry people around you are being rubbish. I think there ought to be some kind of "Dealing with friends who are grieving the loss of their child for Dummies" given out for free by the government. Since we lost our little baby G, not only have I come across all of you amazing ladies on this thread but have been absolutely gobsmacked by all the stories people have volunteered to us in RL. SOOO many people have lost babies. So many have had miscarriages, at least 5 of my friends had a TFMR like we did and at least half a dozen people around us lost a baby later on in pregnancy for various horrendous reasons. Yet everyone is so utterly crap at interacting with grieving parents. I often find myself having to sugarcoat what happened to us for fear of upsetting people. Madness, right? missalex , I am sure they didn't mean to be rude -at least I hope not? Tell US about the nursery if you'd like to. And Lake , if you live in London, I would love to come round and lend you my shoulder to cry on.

Betty , my stomach churned when I read your account of your dd role-playing the birth of a dead baby. Our daughter, also 2,5 yo, keeps asking about our baby. Does mummy have a baby in her tummy? Where is the baby? Why has the baby gone? The other day on the bus, we had a conversation (I don't speak English to her so I am translating) which went roughly like this:
DD: Me go see 'friend A' and baby Z! [Baby Z is her best friend's little brother and was born the same day I had my TFMR, we are neighbours so we see him pretty much every single day. Gulp.]
Me: No, we are going to see 'friend A' and her daughter 'B'. Baby Z is C's baby and lives with your 'friend D', he is her little brother.
DD: Oh. And me have a little brother?
Me: Well...Yes and no. Not really.
DD: Whyyyyy mummy?
Me: Well, you have BAby G, but he's an angel and is sleeping in the sky.
DD: Yes...(She went silent for a while, clearly thinking about this, then said:) Me would like Baby G in my home, like 'friend D' has Baby Z in her home!
Me: I know sweetie, me too, I would really, really like Baby G in our home...

It was heartbreaking. I fought the tears so hard. She has seen me cry so often lately and gets really upset when I do. We were on a packed, rush hour bus and it was really so, so sad...
BUT I always try to comfort myself with the fact that my own mum had a stillborn son when I was three (undiagnosed pre-eclampsia) and I have absolutely zero memory of it: zero memory of her pregnant, of her grief or of him being mentioned, when I know he was. So Betty, you have reacted in perfectly the right way I think, in explaining to your little girl that it is not the usual, expected outcome of childbirth to have a dead baby. It is great that she voices it and it is even greater that you are communicating with her so well. I hope that both of us and everyone else on here can give our children the sibling we are so desperate for them to have...

Thank you all for being so wonderful. I always feel positively 'listened to' and supported when I come on here. It is the best 'crap place' to be in!

[kayleighferrie1985]

MissA Brian's doing ok thanks. He seems to be enjoying his afternoons at school, and his physio has read the riot act to his teacher so i'm feeling a bit more reassured now. We've got an appointment with Brian's neurologist this afternoon so he's not in school, but he's still on half days so it's not too bad. Sorry to hear your weekend wasn't what you expected, sending hugs

Waves to all xx

[missalexandra]

Lake hope things go as well tomorrow as they possibly can x

Earth will be thinking of you, F and your DH tomorrow x

Critter that poem is so lovely, and like you say what we are going through is nothing "new", and I would imagine it was much more common many years ago. You must not be far away from transfer now?

ATM did you go get checked out? Are you feeling better?

Betty oh my goodness how terribly sad your little girl is role-playing having a stillborn Like you say, hopefully she is too young to realise the real tragedy of what has happened and you can explain gently to her when she is older. Best of luck with TTC

Tulip PGD is Preminplantational Genetic Diagnosis, they test your embryos to make sure they dont have any serious genetic problems that would most likely lead to miscarriage if they implanted. That way they can choose the healthy ones to transfer. Its very expensive but worth it in the long run (not sure they'd do it on the NHS). Genetic problems dont always come up in 'normal' tests which can lead to incorrect diagnosis of 'unexplained infertility'. Hope it doesnt take too long for them to approve your IVF treatment. Had a smile about your A's humongous feet!

Owl did you manage to get through Sunday ok?

Ruby five days to touchdown as if you needed reminding.

Spaniel hope you are ok

Kayleigh how is Brian doing?

AFM had some friends staying over the weekend, havent seen them for years. The whole weekend went by without one mention of A. Even when we were showing them the house as they hadnt seen it yet, and she went into the nursery (I thought she would just pop her head round the door but no, she went right in) there was no mention of A. Just "what a lovely colour". Just one more disappointing instance of friends not knowing how to react I suppose.

Waves to Blue Ducky Mademoiselle Lady and anyone lurking x

[kayleighferrie1985]

Betty hi, yes me and DH are TTC, we got the all clear back in June. I've had a couple of months where i've wondered if it's happened but no BFP yet. I can relate to what you said about the absence always being there (as i'm sure all the ladies here can relate), just today we had gone out with friends for lunch and i just kept thinking how there should have been a high chair at the table.

waves to all xx