So tell me about this cancer vaccine for year 8 girls

[AtheneNoctua]

A school in Manchester has decided not to allow it to be administered at school. They say school is no the place for it, but have no objection to the vaccine.

What do you think?
Is school the right place to give jabs?

I'm inclined to think I agree with the school. Schools have a hard enough time stretching the budget for education. I don't think it's right for the NHS to expect them to set aside part of the day to help fund the vaccination program. But, then, how much does it really cost to let a few nurses and a table in the door to jab girls between classes?

I wonder what the side effects are of this jab. I'm not really in favor of jabbing for everything under the sun. I'm not I'd want my DD to get the jab if I didn't think she had some high risk factors for contracting cervical cancer.

Just wondered what other people think of this program...

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7633761.stm

[Beachcomber]

Thanks for noticing portandlemon!

I agree that it is harder to get information about Cervarix as it was released after Gardasil.

Don't take this the wrong way therealmrsosborne but the info on the NHS link you posted is the most dumbed down misleading pile of crap I've come across in a long time and I read a lot of vaccine information.

I recently posted about these HPV vaccines on a forum for people who have suffered from vaccine damage.

I'm going to post a copy of what I said here;

"I think this situation is very complicated. As cybertiger points out, there is a lot of talk going on about this vaccine that has little to do with the medical arguments. Personaly, I think that alone is one reason to be cautious about it. I find it very concerning that the limited information that is given to the public tends to be misleading and dumbed down.

If you are looking for medical arguments against HPV vaccines then the NEMJ link and the Judicial Watch links summarise many of them. As for arguments for, well, I'm not sure that you have come to the right place for that!

In my experience the people I have come across who are for the jab either have a vested interest in it or are pretty ignorant of the science.

I have a simple question for you. Considering how much is unknown about this vaccine, do you think it is ethical to encourage such a large proportion of the population to have it?

When I mean what is unknown, I'm refering to the following;

If the vaccine will prevent cervical cancer or not.
How long the vaccine works for.
If boosters will be required, and if so, how many over what time period.
If by vaccinating against certain strains of HPV serotype replacement will take place rendering the vaccine at best useless and at worst dangerous.
If the vaccine will interfere with the current relationship between humans and HPV where over 90% of people clear the infection with no trouble and benefit from immunity.
If the vaccine is carcenogenic.
If the vaccine has any effect on fertility/puberty/hormone levels.
If the vaccine is safe for younger girls.
If the vaccine is really responsible for the side effects and deaths that have so far been reported to VAERS.

There are plenty other unanswered questions about this vaccine, but I think the above is enough to warrant its withdrawal and to demand further testing.

It seems that the only thing that we can be sure of so far with this jab is that it is worth a lot of money."

[PortAndLemon]

Beachcomber's NEJM article is about Cervarix not Gardasil, though, isn't it? At least, it appears to be about an (unnamed in the article) vaccine that protects against the HPV-16 and HPV-18 serotypes, like Cervarix, rather than one that also protects against the HPV-6 and HPV-11 serotypes, like Gardasil.

[Cammelia]

I don't know the answer lynette

Possibly when I have investigated it thoroughly/or when she is old enough to decide for herself ?

[LynetteScavo]

But, Cammelia - when would you feel confident in letting your DD have it?

If there are to be some sort of undiscovered side effects they may not be discovered any time soon.By then it will be too late for your DD to have it. I'm just sort of wonering out loud here.

[SqueakyPop]

I work in a Catholic school and our girls are being done. They had their first jab last week. I think the whole year group had it.

[Tortington]

the protection from HPV is better before sexual intercourse.

and so not being an ostrich i planned this as soon as she was 15 as the series of three take over 7 or 8 months.

she now has a serious bf. v. serious. and will no doubt have sex soon

[Cammelia]

I won't be letting my dd be a guinea pig for this next year

[Tortington]

she is 15

[LynetteScavo]

Custardo - why did you need to go private?

[Tortington]

my daughter is having her third vaccination friday.

i sought it out privately and paid £300 for a series of three.

[LynetteScavo]

mosschops - thats an interesting point about RC schools not offering the vaccine - I hadn't even thought of that!

It's likely DD will go to a RC high school (but she's only 3, so who knows!)and I would very much like her to be vacinated.

My Grandmother (who I can asure you was only ever with one man!) had some sort of cervical cancer, but didn't die of it. My sister and I have had colposcopies, so I've a feeling it might run in our family.

Surely you wouldn't have to go private to get the jab if your DD couldn't have it in school - wouldn't your GP offer free? I've heard it's something like £300

[TheRealMrsOsborne]

It is not a few nurses set up on a table in school organising an immunisation session in school is a nightmare and takes a lot of work and preparation - and believe me i know because i do it every year. In quite a few areas the school nurses already give diphtheria, tetanus & Polio (DTP) and 2nd measles, mumps & rubella (MMR) as required. They are immunised in school as it is the most cost effective way of delivering the immunisation programme.

All of these articles being posted are about gardasil not cervarix which is the vaccine being used.

Look at this website, and then make an informed choice about whether you want your daughter to receive the vaccine

www.immunisation.nhs.uk/Vaccines/HPV

[SubRosa]

useful

[SubRosa]

There have been reports of side effects from Gardasil ( I know this isn't the one used here) in Europe. There's an article from January, I'm afraid it's not that usfeul to most, as it's in German:

www.sueddeutsche.de/,tt6m1/wissen/artikel/499/155095/

The article's about 2 young women who died after receiving the Gardasil vaccine. One woman died a day after being vaccinated; the other 3 weeks later.

It may of course be totally unconnected, but it's better to be fully informed, given that this is a very new vaccine.

[Beachcomber]

Would also recommend reading this report from Judicial Watch.

www.judicialwatch.org/documents/2008/JWReportFDAhpvVaccineRecords.pdf

(It is about Gardasil not Cervarix.)

[Beachcomber]

I would recommend reading this article from the New England Journal of Medicine.

content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/359/8/861

Have to bath the kids right now but will post a couple of links later to more info.

[PortAndLemon]

I know Richard Halvorsen reckons (or reckoned, when I read his comments on it last year) that it's not had enough long-term studies done to establish whether it remains effective over more than a couple of years and isn't nearly as effective as it's talked up as being.

[Beachcomber]

Mosschops the vaccine is not designed to prevent people from becoming infected with HPV in all its many forms. There are many strains of the virus and the Merck vaccine Gardasil protects against 4 of them, Ceravix by GSK is designed to protect against two of them.

From what I have read about this vaccine, I don't think it has been well enough tested on a wide enough age range in sufficient numbers. Reports of adverse events are high in the US (for Gardasil). As yet the vaccine has not been shown to prevent cervical cancer and the idea that it will is purely theoretical at the moment. We won't know if it does or not until these girls are a lot older (by which time the protective effect of the vaccine if any may well have worn off).

One of the concerns with this vaccine is that of serotype replacement; when one strain of a virus replaces the niche left in the ecosystem because a competing strain has been supressed. It is perfectly possible for a more virulent and dangerous strain to replace a strain that over 90 percent of the population clear from their bodies with no trouble at all.

The fact is that no-one really knows what the long term results of effects of this vaccine will be on cervical cancer rates and deaths.

Don't know about everyone else, but I'm not willing to have my daughters tested on so that we can find out.

Seriously folks, read about about this and make up your mind for yourself. There is a lot of controversy surrounding this vaccine.

[pointydog]

Good to do it at school. Don't see a problem. Dd1 will be getting it soon.

[MaureenMLove]

DD has her first one yesterday at school. 2 nurses, doing around 180 girls. It took about an hour apparently, so not a long time out of the day and the nurses were brought in from local NHS Trust, so no inconvenience to school nursing staff.

If anyone's yr8 dd is having the jab soon, may I just suggest that you either dose her up with ibruprofen before school or stick a couple of tablets in her bag. DD said that most girls had achey, stiff arms for the rest of the day.

[Trafficcone]

Teenagers are given their jabs at school, always have done, so why should this be different? You can still opt out of it.
And it's NOT a cancer vaccine. It's an HPV vaccine.

[psychomum5]

far better to have it at school than have to book lots of appointments at the docs and waste their time and money. IMO at least.

plus, they can all comfort each other, or wind each other up. If I had to take my DD I would be jittery (what with not liking needles), and so make her worse, and then how would that help anyone???

PLus, I would then have no sympathy for her as I would demand it instead.

nah, I am most happy with it being done in school, and then she can come home to a hug from a calm mum

[pooka]

DD not in year 8 (nowhere near) but I will be allowing her to have the vaccine.

IMO school is the BEST place for the vaccine. And nothing new - I had BCG, rubella and polic vaccines at school when I was younger.

Reason is good for school to be involved is because is more likely to get higher uptake than if the responsibility for organisation left to parents and dispersed and different surgeries. (speak as one who still has to get round to booking ds's 2nd mmr, required because has been a measles epidemic round here).

[mosschops30]

I think school is the right place, but Im not bothered if dd's school dont take it up (which they probably wont also being RC High School).

I will pay for her to have it privately. Ive been to some lectures on this at a Nursing Exhibtion, it will the school nurses rolling it out in some places and I cant see why this cant be done.

I agree with the vaccine, i believe it has been tried and tested and support the decision to vaccinate all girls aged 12 and over, if it prevents them from contracting HPV

[Pixel]

Dd's school had the first round of jabs today. Dd was the only girl in the whole year who didn't have it, which surprised me TBH. I thought there would be at least a few other parents who would want to know more about a new vaccine before giving it to their daughters.