Is anyone else concerned about the Measles outbreak in the Swansea area?

[IwishIwasmoreorganised]

We live in the Vale of Glamorgan, and had letters fom Public Health sent home from school before the Easter break saying that there had been a few cases in our immediate area. We were in the WMC over the weekend and there are notices there asking people to be vigilant for the signs and symptoms

The numbers affected have now topped 500 in the Swansea area.

Our ds's have both had 2 doses of the MMR, but as the start of the summer term draws nearer (they go back on Monday), I'm feeling more concerned.

There's nothing realistically that I can do to protect them any more is there?

[Llareggub]

Thinking about it, I am more worried about bringing up children in an area with such a high heroin problem. See, you can worry about everything.

[lottieandmia]

Well, I disagree bruffin and have read a great deal about this but not going to argue, we'll agree to differ :)

[bruffin]

Lottie, i wont agree to differ because its posts like yours and AW that has caused the measles problems of today, it comes from quack websites. Also they will be able to roughly estimate singles because there is no single vaccines licensed for use in the UK and anyone importing a single vaccine has to do so under special license and they know how many are imported into the country.

[lottieandmia]

What do you mean, 'posts like mine'? Vaccine damage does happen to some children and some children are more at risk than others and that is why some people don't vaccinate. There is at least one well known Mner who knows that her son regressed following the MMR. All vaccines carry a risk and some children are more at risk than others.

To deny that this is the case is arrogant. This is not a clear cut issue and I do wish people would understand that everyone is trying to do the best for their child whatever decision they take.

And fwiw I am not particularly anti-vaccination but totally understand why some people take the decisions they do.

btw - do you have any proof that outbreaks in the US happen only in unvaccinated children?

[bruffin]

I did not say vaccine damage does not happen. It does but it is incredibly rare. None of the cases that AW included were NT one day and regressed over night. There had been study after study that cannot make the connection AW made. You are perpetuating the myth there's a connection between mmr and autism when there is no evidence for it. Those who should not have mmr are clearly advised and it nothing to do with some mythical genetic predisposition against having a triple as appeased to the single.

Secondly i didn't say that all the cases in the US were unvaccinated. Info is easily searchable and the initial cases were imported by unvaccinated travellers and over 80% of the cases were completely unvaccinated. Some had not had the booster,

[4nomore]

Yay Bruffin! I'm glad someone still has the energy to argue these points.

[lottieandmia]

This isn't just about a connection with autism though.

Where is the evidence that vaccine damage is 'incredibly rare' please? (and what number would be 'incredibly rare) Adverse reactions to vaccines are not published. The whole thing has become so political now. And even if it is rare do you think collateral damage is acceptable?

The point is that while a vaccine may be reasonably safe for one child it may be much more risky for another whose has autoimmune disorders in the family.

[bruffin]

The vaers system does publish reactions. I linked to a table the other day that compares the reach to the vaccine compared to complications of the disease. Incredibly rare is 1 in a million.
I have never ever found anything that connects vaccination damage and immune problems. Autoimmune problems are not included as contradictions for vaccines. There is plenty of evidence that the diseases will leave you autoimmune diseases ie rubella and arthritis and diabetes following viruses.

[OrangeFootedScrubfowl]

I am concerned as I have a premature baby who won't have taken much immunity from me. :(

[lottieandmia]

No they are not included as contraindications, but a lot of us think they should be. Also of concern is that if someone suffers a bad reaction to a vaccine (and I don't believe it's as low as 1 in a million), medical practitioners refuse to accept that the vaccine could have been responsible. The lack of honesty by the authorities is why we now have this situation and it could have been avoided imo.

What you seem to be saying is that we should all vaccinate, no matter what. And I disagree. And this is not easy for any of us, as can be seen on the thread below. As I say, it isn't a clear cut issue as much as any of us would like it to be.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/1725249-What-would-you-do-MMR-and-autism-question

[bigbuttons]

I have 6 dc's. First had mmr and changed pretty much 'overnight'. Can't say it was because of the mmr can't say that it wasn't though. But the change in him was huge and baffling to all dr's and consultants.
He stopped eating and growing for a while, stopped speaking. He wasn't the same bright little boy at all. He just shut down developmentally.
He had the most vile bowel movements and since he was in cloth nappies I knew exactly what wasn't being digested.
I chose not to take the risk with my other children. The other 5 all had measles last year and although an unpleasant illness, they were fine.
So there are those of us that have to make the difficult decision not to immunise and it IS a difficult decision.

[Posterofapombear]

There is now a small but significant outbreak in mid Wales which has resulted in all toddlers having MMR boosters now instead of at 3.

This is thanks to a bunch of irresponsible idiots who spout forth their anti vaccine crap at every available opportunity and have unvaccinated children.

They are most displeased that their little ones are at risk now because the herd immunity is too low.

My DD had measles at 8 weeks because of them and will now have to have an extra vaccination so in struggling to feel much pity.

[ClaraOswinOswald]

I honestly can't remember my DDs being offered a booster for the MMR. Will ring the doctors on Monday, maybe they had it, but I can't be sure. Is it routine?

[Llareggub]

Have you checked your red book?

[bruffin]

Lottie none of them have ever come with any evidence about immune disease and vaccine and believe me i have asked on numerous occasions and so have many others.

[ClaraOswinOswald]

Nothing in the red book but we moved counties and they rarely got weighed or anything after their development checks at about 2. I won't panic, we're home all weekend and I'll ring Monday.

[IwishIwasmoreorganised]

lottieandmia. I can see that the debate over to vaccinate or not is one that is close to your heart, but this thread wasn't intended as a forum for that debate.

I simply asked if anyone was concerned about the current outbreak and if there was an more I could be doing to protect ourselves.

[ChristmasJubilee]

EggInABap it would be interesting to know if the "two in hospital" were vaccinated ie whether the vaccine gives some protection.

[LoveSewingBee]

The two jabs together give a 99% protection. So, out of 100 kids who have all had the two MMR jabs and who have all been exposed to measles (like now in Wales for example) one fully vaccinated child might still get measles. Just very very unlucky when that happens and that shows how important herd immunity is.

However, the probability that unvaccinated children get measles when they have been exposed is close to 100%.

[Guitargirl]

We don't live there but we have spent the last week in the area visiting family. Our DCs have had both the vaccines. We didn't take any precautions last week, i.e. went out and about as much as usual but I did notice that the softplays/museums/swimming pool were quieter than usual so I guess people are staying away. Apparently the local paper has taken a portion of the blame in the low uptake because of its reporting of the scare at the time, they have said that none of the staff on the paper at the time are still there now .

[LoveSewingBee]

Given that both your dc have been fully vaccinated, the probability that they get measles is very very small (about 1 in 100). It is also thought (but not scientifically proven) that vaccinated children may get a milder form of measles compared with unvaccinated children.

You may want to read up on measles symptoms and timelines, just to be prepared and in order to know what to look out for. If in any doubt, be careful to avoid immune suppressed people as they in all likelihood have not been vaccinated and measles would be extremely dangerous to them.

[duchesse]

DS is at U of Swansea and was not fully vaccinated until January 2012 as he'd reacted badly to the first jab. I was concerned about mumps in his first year at university so thankfully had him boosted. I would like to know how many of the children and young people with measles at the moment are actually vaccinated- I suspect more than the public health people are letting on. At no point have they said that all the victims are unvaccinated.

[LoveSewingBee]

As mentioned above, no vaccine is 100 per cent effective.

Ultimately, it is going to be a numbers game. If 1000 children have been exposed to measles, of whom 300 had not been vaccinated and 700 have had the two jabs, then you would expect:
the 300 unvaccinated children to now have contracted measles and 7 of the fully vaccinated children to also have contracted measles, although possibly, but not guaranteed, in a milder form. The latter is due to the lack of herd immunity.

The majority of children who contract measles will not become gravely ill, develop eyesight or hearing problems or encephalitis or even death. This will be a small subsection. Based on past figures the death rate is 1 in 1000. However, it is impossible to predict which child will be the unlucky one. This is why herd immunity is so important, as some children (and adults) truly cannot be vaccinated due to immune problems or egg allergies etc.

[Llareggub]

Good job the schools are off for another week. I've not come across any children with measles as yet. I had it as a child and I am still breastfeeding my youngest so hopefully that will help.

[duchesse]

Yes indeed Bee- almost everyone over the age of 40 will have had measles and they are not all brain-damaged and/or blind, so presumably the risk of severe complications must be actually fairly low. It is possible to have some pretty stonking complications from chicken pox but people don't think twice about that.