Quite concerned about DD, what would you do?

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

DD recently has been getting really difficult to wake up in the morning. She is five years old and her bedtime is seven. Mostly she is asleep by 7:15. I wake her up approx 6:45/7:00 in the morning so we can get ready to leave the house, so nearly 12 hours sleep a night.
For a few weeks she was complaining every now and again of a tummy ache, took her to the docs who said UTI and she had a course of antibiotics.
This week she has become extremely clingy, difficult to wake up in the morning, very emotional, and has been going to bed sooner and sooner each night, and getting more difficult to wake in the morning. She's also a bit off her food, one day this week she had a slice of toast for breakfast, at lunch she ate half a sandwich, and tea she had half a toastie, and she didn't want anything else.
Yesterday she had spent nearly 45 minutes crying at the childminders house before I picked her up, she alternates between saying nothing is wrong / she's just tired / she's worried the new baby will be smelly (I am 35 weeks pg, but up til now, she's seemed fine at the idea of having a sibling). I took her home last night, she was in bed and asleep at 5:45, she slept until 7:10 this morning. I have picked her up, and apparently she has been asleep "several times" today in class, slept for an hour at the childminders, and is currently lying in bed now.
I did try to get her in our docs, but they cannot see her until next thursday.
In these cirumstances, WWYD? DH says to ring nhs direct, but I'm not sure if we're just being paranoid. Any advice would be appreciated. Some people have suggested that she may be naturally worried about the new arrival, and this is what is making her a bit emotional, but surely wouldn't put her off her food and make her sleep excessively?

[Pixielovescake]

It shouldnt happen like that FAB but at least its sorted now. :)

[FAB5]

She isn't fixed yet but we are seeing the right people now. No wonder the poor child was in agony if her insides were all twisted.

Sorry for hijack, Elf.

[Pixielovescake]

Oops yes sorry for hijacking.
Sounds :( FAB. Poor girl. Hope she feels better soon !

[ZhenXiang]

It could be that your DD like my six year old niece (who exhibited many of the same symptoms as your DD) has some food/environmental allergies/intolerances. My niece is now getting tested for food allergies after blood tests done by hospital showed that her white blood cell count was low. If food allergen is affecting intestinal absorption of essential vitamins and minerals it can affect iron levels so the doctors need to check for anaemia too.

Excessive sleep could be due to changes in cortisol levels (had this as a teen and kept falling asleep all over the place). This can be related to food allergies as the IgG-mediated reaction is a delayed response, usually 36-72 hours after exposure to an antigen. IgG-mediated reactions are seen in most food allergies. The delayed response makes it difficult to pin down the specific food allergy.

These are some of the symptoms that can be produced by delayed response to an allergen:

-Gastrointestinal complaints including stomach pains, heartburn, excess gas, chronic diarrhea/constipation, irritable bowel syndrome, ulcers and malabsorption problems

• Dark circles under the eyes.
  
• Sinusitis.
  
• Itching.
  
• Chronic fatigue.
  
• Edema.
  
• Joint/muscle pain.
  
• Puffy eyes.
  
• Acne.
  
• Anxiety/depression.
  
• Chronic swollen glands.
  
• Eczema.
  
• Insomnia.
  
• Headaches (migraines).
  
• Hives.
  
• Asthma.
  
• Wheezing.
  
• Hyperactivity.
  
• Bedwetting.
  
• Canker sores.
  
• Arthritis.
  
• Chronic infections.
  
• Frequent ear infections.
  
• Irritability.
  

One more thing though antibiotics are quite strong on the stomach and can make you feel sick, be off food etc ... Also can lead to outbreaks of thrush (candida/yeast infection) as they kill off the bacteria that help keep yeast levels low which can in turn make you feel quite grotty. Could also be putting her off eating, therefore more tired/emotional because not getting enough food energy (I have been known to cry due to hunger!). You could try daily yakult type drink to see if that helps, might be worth a try as something you can do aside from doc's appt.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

Thought I'd give a quick update. Kept DD off school on Friday, she seemed generally okay, didn't eat a massive amount of food (slice of toast for breakfast, half a ham cob at lunch, and some pasta for tea).
Yesterday she woke up and seemed full of beans and begged to go dancing. We let her go, and told the dance teacher that she'd been a bit off and to let her sit down if needed. She dances for an hour and a half, and the teacher said she'd been lively and fine during class. We visited FIL and she sat and picked flowers in the garden, then asked if we could go to the swimming pool which we did; was there for about 40 mins, she was paddling mostly. Still very full of beans. She'd had breakfast and lunch before swimming, and afterwards she asked if we could go to the "dinner pub" for tea, but it was there she just had this massive slump, almost asleep in her tea. Refused to eat anything of substance (managed to get her to eat, from a combination of plates, to eat a few beans, peas, mash, fish and sweetcorn). Took her home where she lay on the sofa, just watching Princess and the Frog and looking as if she was going to fall asleep. She went to bed at seven, asleep by half past, woke up this morning at half seven. seems generally okay today, has had breakfast, sitting on the sofa now in PJ's watching television.
I'm now at a bit of a loss, because she appears fine & happy & energetic, then just slumps.
Have got her on a multivitaim now (diet generally okay, especially when at the childminders, eats lots of home cooked dishes with a variety of stuff in them, including pulses etc).
Monitored how many times she went to the loo yesterday, she went twice before dance (thats at 10) then she didn't go from then until we were at the swimming pool (at 1:30) but she went before we got in the pool, then had to go to the loo again because she was "desperate", then went to the loo at the pub (at four) then before bed, then woke up at 11:00 to go to the loo (done this for a few days, usually once she's been at seven before bed, she lasts until morning).
Drink wise I don't think she asked for more juice during the day, so thirst doesn't appear to have increased, if it has, its in line with what I'd expect her to be drinking, as previously she's been difficult to get juice / water in.

[CarGirl]

I know very little about diabetes but as she has increased thirst and weeing for her then I would be asking them to keep checking her urine just in case. It is my understanding that you can develop type II diabetes (controlled by diet) and if it isn't picked up then it can change to type I (insulin dependent - unless they are the other way around ). I know a couple of children who in fact had diabetes for months, one of them almost a year before they got diagnosed.

I just think the slump could coincide with when she needs food/sugar and then being full of beans when her sugar levels are ok?

Perhaps look at early symptoms???

It could of course be just a virus - or a few that have ran back to back?

[nightcat]

My bet is on frequency of eating wheat, the more wheat she eats the more obvious the symptoms, but when you eat less wheat, she is fine. Gluten in wheat suppresses a lot of enzyme, digestive as well as metabolic.
Also when they advertise the so-called slow-release (wheat-based) carbs, they just sit there way too long plus some people just can't digest them properly, so it slows down metabolism and absorption of other nutrients.
Limit the wheat to maybe one meal per day or small helpings only and she will be fine.
Reaction to wheat/gluten is not instant, it could be a day or more (as long as it takes for it to come out basically).

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

She has seemed much better today. Still difficult to get out of bed, but has had a generally good day. Going to phone tomorrow for her water sample test results.

[TheOriginalFAB]

Good luck.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

Doctors confirmed that they have checked DD's water sample, and found nothing of concern. She has seemed slightly better this week, still difficult to wake in the morning, still tired early evening, but not falling asleep in her dinner etc.

[TheOriginalFAB]

I hope she continues to improve.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

Well, we have been back to the doctors this morning, something probably unrelated, but she's complaining of a really sore neck, in fact this morning for a few hours, everytime she moved, she screamed in agony.
Just wish she was better :(

[TheOriginalFAB]

Oh no . I have had similar with my DD and I know how worrying it is.

[ForkfulOfEasterEgg]

Elf - I was idly reading your thread on ipod but I have dropped everything to logon to laptop to type out a reply to you.

You must insist on blood tests to rule out diabetes. The lack of problem with the urine sample is not enough.

Diabetes type 1 develops over several days/weeks.

Don't be put off by the fact that you don't think she is drinking more.

You have the excessive tiredness/energy slumps plus the increased weeing/waking up to wee and the wee accident.

The reason I know a bit about this is my brother deveoped diabetes when he was 11. The wee accident is a large red flag. Also the tiredness etc.

Please please read up on diabetes type 1 in children. Your DD could go into a diabetic coma. I am really really sorry to alarm you but you need to ensure that a medical professional has thoroughly ruled out diabetes type 1.

NICE clinical guidelines.

^"The symptoms and signs of type 1 diabetes include: hyperglycaemia (random blood glucose more than 11 mmol/litre), polyuria, polydipsia and weight loss. 1.1.1.2 Children and young people with suspected type 1 diabetes should be offered immediate (same day) referral to a multidisciplinary paediatric diabetes care team that has
the competencies needed to confirm diagnosis and to
provide immediate care."^

I think you need to ring your doctors one last time and demand another appointment with a different GP to urgently discuss diabetes. If not then print out this thread (for notes on the symptoms you've noticed) and go to A&E.

Good luck.

[sowhatshallido]

I would agree - as the parent of two children with diabetes - one developed it at 15 months, and one at age 11.
It creeps up and then suddenly you cant ignore it any longer because they are so ill by the time they are diagnosed.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

DH has been at work today, he's said he will probably take DD to A&E this afternoon. The doctor we saw today was mostly focused on the neck pain she was having, but did listen to her chest and prod her belly and stuff, but both doctors we have seen (plus the walk in centre) seem to think she's getting over flu, but she hasn't been ill as such, not like I would expect for flu. Shall speak to DH when he gets home.

[TheOriginalFAB]

I hope you get it sorted. We saw 6 doctors including one at A & E before going private and having a diagnosis in minutes.

[SomebodyNew]

Just marking my place here and hoping she is ok.

[blinks]

how are things elf?

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

She seems to be doing okay, no energy slumps. She's had a few restless nights recently, where she has slept in our bed and cried in the night. Doctors still think that she's had/got a viral infection/flu and this is her getting over it. She generally not a very ill child so this does seem to have knocked her for six, whatever is wrong.
DH is going to take her back to the doctors though and request some further tests.
We all went on the wii the other day, its been a long time since we have been on (DH was concerned about me being too energetic on the wii after I had a threatened miscarriage with this pregnancy). We'd weighed & measured DD on the wii board and the last time she'd been on was 249 days ago. We redid her measurements, in that time, she's put on 3lbs but also grown a few inches, so her weight gain has been really small.

[blinks]

is she sweaty at night?

[sneezecakesmum]

Growth spurts can cause tiredness in children and sleeping longer than usual, especially as she appears to have some kind of viral illness. Also her fluctuating energy levels could be because she appears to be a picky eater. Try to get small frequent meals/snacks down her of slow release type carbs to maintain her energy levels at a more even level and to prevent the hyper/slump cycle. Avoid high sugar quick release foods. I think diabetes is unlikely as her urine has been tested so frequently and glucose is also on the test strip. Its pretty impossible to have high blood sugars which dont show in the urine.
Has she been treated for a recent urine infection? Sometimes even though the infection is cleared the inside of the bladder remains inflamed and irritated, causing rushing to the loo and feeling she needs to go more frequently.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

She's always been a sweaty child at night, literally dripping.
She was treated for a uti at Christmas, but the doctors hadn't actually completed any tests, they just went on what we described and gave her some antibiotics, on the assumption that she did have a uti.
Eating wise, she eats a wide variety of food, but she does go through cycles, usually in line with when she has a bit of a spurt, she'll have a few weeks where she's really fussy and takes forever to eat something, then she has a few weeks where she seems raveneous and she'll eat for England.

[MummyBerryJuice]

Just caught this now. Are you still worried? And if so, did they do any blood tests?

I would probably insists the basic blood tests to check for some common things like anaemia, kidney functions etc. Doctors can sometimes be a bit dismissive but if you are the best judge of whether things are normal or not with your own child.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

DH is going to take DD back in a week if she is not continuing to improve for some blood tests for iron etc, particularly at the moment as she is bruising very easily (I know most children do, but she's seemingly going through a clumsy stage, so quite bruised!).
We have got her on some mutli vitaims at the moment, just some childrens A B C D & E ones, though she does have a healthy diet and loves fruit & vegetables. The only thing I would worry she didn't get enough of in her diet is iron, because she doesn't eat a lot of meat, though she does eat green veggies.