external cephalic version - anyone refused?

[heartmoonshadow]

Hi,

I am 32 weeks pregnant and throughout my pregnancy I have had a constantly transverse baby. I have been advised that due to the 'estimated size' of the baby (done by feel alone) that it is unlikely the baby will turn. The midwife says there is no point measuring for birth size as there is no possible way of getting an accurate measure. I have a growth scan booked for 35 weeks but she has warned me that the doctor will put pressure on me to have an ECV - which I do not want as there is a risk of early onset labour.

I think that if the baby is still transverse I would like to push for a c-section at 39 weeks - any tips for speaking to scary consultants and voicing a valid argument for no ECV and a c-section appreciated.

[gladders]

i chose ECV - it was highly recommended by my consultant and no one mentioned at any point that it could hurt.

my baby was small (6lb 15 a week later) and not engaged and it was the most painfaul experience ever. i had 3 people holding onto different parts of the baby and using all their force to run him. i had finger nail marks in my belly.

in realise that this does not rule out its effectiveness as a procedure but i do think anyone embarking on it should be aware of the possible downsides. (oh and it didnt work anyway)

[NKffffffffbd5c103cX11d23fe3986]

I'd love to know the name of this wonderful consultant with the high success rate for ECV as my daughter might need him!

[JetLi]

Hi heart - a lovely lady just posted this technique on our antenatal thread for turning babies. A little unorthodox maybe, but it could provide a couple of evenings of entertainnment for you and hubby

"positioning I've no idea if it made any difference last time, but DP and I spent a couple of highly amusing evenings with a bag of frozen peas and a torch trying to get DD to turn (and she did at some point - no idea if on own accord or not). Allegedly, babe will move towards light and away from cold, so get on all fours, put torch down by pubic bone and peas on top of bump!"

[KirstyJC]

Hi there heart. I had ECVs with both my babies (breech) at 37 weeks. I didn't need to sign a consent form although they asked me quite clearly if I consented.

I had the same consultant do it both time (5 yrs apart) and it was a different one from the other consultant - I think he specialised in it or something.

The one thing everyone made very clear - from midwives who realised they were breech - to consultants - was that ECV was AN OPTION - they at no point pressured me into it. The guy who did it had only had to do 1 emergency C Section as a result, in 6 years of doing it - but his success rate was way above average I think.

Personally I wanted to avoid a section as my sister mhad 2 and the recovery was horrible and affected what she could do with the babies. BUT that was just her, I wouldn't necessarily have had the same probs. Do remember though that a section IS major surgery and does have risks of its own - don't think of it as the low-risk solution!

If you are adamant then stick to your guns and I'm sure it will be fine.

Good luck!

[JetLi]

Well chuck it never rains but it pours - you're really going through it! I guess you're heading towards 34 weeks-ish now which I think is a bit of a "magic number" in pregnancy with respect to baby's lung development - I hope you get some reassurance today.
You might be a Mummy by the time Wimbledon starts at this rate!
x

[pokemonmum]

hi, just thought i'd share my experience. my son was breech at 37 weeks and my consultant tried to push me into a c-section rather than trying to turn the baby even though there were no other complications. (which i was totally against, she even wrote i was having section on my notes before i agreed!). Anyway the little monster turned at 38 weeks the night before i was due to go into hospital for attempted turning, never felt a thing and he wasn't small (9lb). So theres time for the baby to turn by itself.
good luck xx

[heartmoonshadow]

Hi JefLi

I see the consultant next week - I have a midwife appointment today, but to top it all off I now have high blood pressure so they are thinking of inducing if necessary dependent on baby direction, bp or any other thing they can find wrong!!! Anyway I am not panicking too much yet (or so I keep claiming to DH!) no point in worrying everyone else is there?

[JetLi]

Hi heart - when do you see the consultant? Thinking of you x

[Reallytired]

32 weeks is still plenty of time to turn. I had a transverse lie until 35 weeks! Infact I would not worry too much until 37 weeks.

See this web site for ideas

www.spinningbabies.com/

Not all consultants are prepared to do ECV.

[wahwahwah]

32 weeks still early. If by 37 no move then start thinking about it. Could try hypnobirthing - has good results.

[mogwai]

I was a bit worried when I read that your husband is a strapping bloke and you are so small.

I have a friend with similar and she had a lot of difficulty giving birth to her first baby. The were both fine in the end but afterwards the medics decided that they ought to have known there might be problems due to the relative difference in their sizes.

She had a section for her second child (for that reason) and was much happier with the whole thing.

My own baby was breech but has now turned the right way up. My husband is a consultant and has lots of consultant and GP friends and I was advised by them not to bother with ECV but to go straight for a section, which would have been my decision had the baby not moved.

It is totally your choice and if you decline then you get the section. You should not have to argue your case. Given your sizes, the section might not be a bad thing anyway.

If you are unhappy with your consultant then write to the clinical director for Obstetrics and Gynaecology stating the reasons why and request a change.

Good luck!

[heartmoonshadow]

HI,

Thanks for the support JetLi - have not been around for a couple of days due to work pressures hence late reply.

I am going to take my SIL with me and she is a bit of a rottweiler so that will help.

I am going to ask for c section regardless of their advice, however I would prefer it if he turned on his own on 6 weeks 5 days (or up to 14 days later to go so fingers crossed.

HMS

[crokky]

Totally agree with JetLi.

[JetLi]

Hi heartmoonshadow - take a copy of the NICE guidelines with you and visibly wave them around. That may help. Here - page 38 is a bit you may want to highlight:
Recommendation on breech presentation
Induction of labour is not generally recommended if a woman?s baby is in the breech presentation. If external cephalic version is unsuccessful, declined or contraindicated, and the woman chooses not to have an elective caesarean section, induction of labour should be offered, if delivery is indicated, after discussing the associated risks with the woman.
Then the other guideline to waft about is here - page 280 is where all the bumpf starts about breech and evidence for ECV - it really ain't that successful.
A friend tried moxibustion to turn her baby (You'll need to see an acupunturist) - sadly it didn't work for her but could be worth a try for you maybe? She declined ECV and went straight for a section - her situation was not disimilar to your in that this was her only baby after 6 tries at IVF - she wasn't taking any chances at all with ECV causing problems.
I'd personally be against ECV - for instance how can they know that baby isn't transverse because the cord is wrapped around their neck - and then surely turning could make that worse? Don't want to frighten you but I'd want them to be 110% sure of what they were doing before they started faffing around.
I'm with christiana - write to the hosp and elect for a c-section. After being told you'd never have children, I'd want the munchkin out of there as swiftly and safely as possible. You've waited too long for them to muck around with you!
Is there someone who can go with you to the appointment and help argue your point?
{{{{{ hugs }}}}}

[Hersetta]

Christina,

She woke me up in the night as she was squirming so much but I never actually knew she had turned around - they was no huge movement where i just knew she had turned.

[christiana]

Message withdrawn

[Hersetta]

I refused an ECV at 37 weeks for breech DD. They tried very hard to persuade me to have it done but when i said i definitely didn't they booked me in for a cs at 39 weeks. in the end DD turned the day before my CS and i found out on the op table and was sent home to wait for nature. Ended up having an EMCS 8 days later anyway!

[hedgiemum]

Yes, ask about success rates for sure. The only consultant who performs ECV's at our (large) hospital claims a 70% success rate, so all the other consultants leave it to him. Everyone just wishes he would develop a better bedside manner though, he's very abrupt - sometimes even rude.

[doulalc]

Try not to worry too much at this point. Most babies will become vertex by 34 weeks and even more so by 36 weeks. Majority of ECVs are done at 36-37 weeks on the off chance baby does need to be delivered or you go into labour, and to try and prevent them changing position again.

Have you tried other means of encouraging baby to turn? An osteopath or chiropractor trained in the Webster Technique might be one consideration....have had some nice success with this in the past with several mothers. Do you know what your consultant's success rate is with an ECV? Much depends on baby's position (transverse has higher success than any breech position), location of placenta, amount of amniotic fluid, and how much experience your doctor has. For some it won't even be an option due to low experience and success rate, and not too many parents want to let their consultant gain experience on them, but some will have a quite high success rate.

Definitely try some alternative means of encouraging baby to turn.

[heartmoonshadow]

Thanks everyone for your replies and I was particularly interested about the success rates.

As yet I don't know the size of my baby other than the fact that I am massive because he has been transverse all the way through and therefore measurements are not reliable.

To be honest I think he is possible just very very long as hubby is 6ft 2in and most males in my family top the 6ft 4in+ side of things, I on the other hand am only 5ft 2in so that could be why the baby has no room to manouvere who knows?

Anyway I am armed now with the facts and can refuse to my hearts content - roll on the next 8 weeks!

[SympatheticConsultant]

ECV is an option to manage breech presenting babies at or after 36 wks (it is simply a process where the baby is manually turned by pressing on the abdomen). After appropriate counselling by your Obstetrician as to the risks and benefits it is entirely YOUR CHOICE as to whether you want to proceed with it or not. No Obstetrician will force you to have one against your will.

We have 4 Consultants who offer ECV during their dedicated weekly LW sessions.In most units the success rates are probably at best 30-40% (but even a 1% success rate is one less unnecessary CS!).
It tends to work best in:

• Mums who have had babies before
• Pregnancies where the breech is not engaged in the pelvis
• Pregnancies where the baby is small or average size

In most cases where it work the baby tends to turn round with very little effort.Although it can be a little uncomfortable excessive force is never used and the process should be stopped if mother is in obvious/significant discomfort!

Hope this helps some of you out there.

[elvislives]

I had an ECV, but they made it clear that it was my choice. They gave me the option of going straight to CS instead.

[TheCrackFox]

I had an ECV (didn't work) and in the unlikely event I needed to have one again I wold refuse.

It is your body and ultimately your decision. You would need to sign a consent form for it anyway so tell them to bugger off.

Good luck.

[hedgiemum]

heartmoonshadow - they wouldn't want to try the ECV until at least 37 weeks anyway (I know this for certain as I'm trying to get my consultant to do one earlier as I've had my last 2 babies at 35 weeks and they won't!)
There tends to be one consultant who specialises in ECV.... at my hospital its one I've had a previous run-in with and can't stand, but I really want ECV as can't bear the thought of a c section...

Stick to your guns if you really don't want ECV. No-one can or will make you.