too posh to push

[MrsNuthouse]

I was told this by someone close to me when I decided to have ELCS after having a very traumatic experience first time round which ended up in EMCS. This has really upset me, I can't even describe the feelings going through me. There's no point explaining anything to her as I've tried and the attitude is still the same.
I too wanted the all natural magical experience when I was pregnant with my first but it all went to hell and this time round I just want the baby out as quick and safe as possible, I don't want "the experience" I had it, it was horrible and I don't want it again! Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that? Why do I have to keep justifying my decision over and over again to everyone? It's like going through the birth trauma again when I'm trying to explain it and people just don't get it. I only have few weeks to go and now I'm just upset and feel like I'm being judged, that I'm somehow a terrible human being for having ELCS.

[WhimsicalWinnifred]

Knit fast, that post is simply perfection! As is your username. I'm glad it all worked out for you, in the end.

[KnitFastDieWarm]

I had an amazing birth with just gas and air, I enjoyed it and felt empowered. I was pleasantly surprised at how positive an experience it was

...up until my son rotated the wrong way while I was pushing, got too stuck for forceps and started to drop his heart rate ending in a category one emergency c section. and then got an infection and spent five days on postnatal while I struggled to care for him after having my abdomen sliced open and losing pints of blood.

yeah, such a lovely, posh, easy experience

the scariest thing is, this all happened in a matter of minutes. the situation went from unremarkable and straightforward to a life threatening emergency in the time it takes to boil a kettle. if I had been giving birth at home, my son would almost certainly have died or been severely brain damaged.

next time, I'll probably have an elective section because there is no fucking way I'd risk that happening again. and of course because I'm posh and just love recovering from major abdominal surgery

but you know what? my c section was fucking brilliant because I saw my beautiful son born safe and healthy and heard his first cry. he is alive because of it. c section birth is beautiful just like any other birth and if your 'friend' can't see that then she can stick it

[Expellibramus]

(Not saying a CS is easier if you're asleep either, I know that's a whole other set of issues, often)

[Expellibramus]

I'm pro natural birth but sadly (for me) had two unwanted CS's. Too posh to push somehow infers an easy ride which quite frankly is laughable in the face of major surgery while you're often awake and then looking after a newborn immediately following. I don't believe anybody that chooses or ends up with a CS has reasons relating to being posh FFS.

[RedToothBrush]

Fluffy, I do think I remember your previous post now. I apologise - there are so many that its difficult to remember everyone. I'm so sorry to hear it turned out like that.

Please also remember that this isn't the only consultant in the NHS and not all will be quite so hostile.

As it goes I weirdly I spotted post regarding Asperger's / HF Autism in women earlier this week on MN.

There are a number of links about what are common traits in women as they seem to differ to men.

The one that caught my eye was this one

To my astonishment, it seems that tokophobia is supposedly a common characteristic of aspergers / HF autism in women. I fit a lot of the profile it came up with.

Reading the article was very interesting to say the least. I can't help but feel that if, true, could help a number of women who fall into the primary tokophobia category as it would give a clear clinical reasoning as to why childbirth might be very problematic for some women.

Unfortunately a) there seems to be a lack of consensus on what Asperger's / HF Autism is in women and what its characteristics are in official medical circles and this research seems to be only at a fairly early stage b) given the above and the fact that being high functioning means it is particularly difficult to get a diagnosis and c) normally giving a diagnosis is an expensive process so doctors often won't pursue it anyway as in most cases they don't believe its actually of benefit to someone who is high functioning is there is little practical support available.

What is apparent to me though, is that a diagnosis of aspergers / hf autism really could be beneficial and give a certain degree of 'legitimacy' to a case. Instead of 'just being afraid' you become 'clinically unable to react in a way that is regarded as normal'. At which point your right to the most appropriate care - which you believe to be an ELCS, has lot more weight.

Like I say, this seems to be easy stage research and information, but I think it offers hope for the future in properly recognising the issue in women who have not got other children. Whether this is beneficial to you or isn't progressed enough to help I don't know. I hope it may help though.

[PinkPlaid]

Well, this is a well-timed topic. My DH's friend is over for the evening and asked about my due date. Told him I'm having c section on Mon, and he replied "too posh to push?"

I tried to laugh it off, and followed up by saying I am under consultant care. Just reading through all your posts and wishing I'd just told him to get to fuck

[FluffyPersian]

RedToothBrush Believe it or not, I actually have one of your posts saved into a notepad as you have posted before on the subject and I felt you spoke such sense and totally 'got it' - I didn't realise that I was already 4 weeks pregnant however . I think very few people 'get it' and put it down to a 'normal' fear of childbirth, but I can honestly, honestly say I was suicidal. I got to the point of writing 'Goodbye' notes to my partner and sisters as I couldn't tolerate being pregnant and the thought of medical professionals touching me and doing things to me without my consent was just too much to bear.

I thought I'd be 'normal', and be excited when I saw the positive test result, however I just cried hysterically and my mood went down and down and down. I did request a C-section at 4.5 weeks and the midwife was kind enough to phone / write to the Consultant who refused to see me until I was 15+ weeks and even then made it very clear that I wouldn't 'just be granted one'. I stupidly started Googling the Consultant (I work in I.T Security and am pretty good at finding stuff online) and found out that the Consultant is quite prominent and has been quite vocal about how 'proud she is of lowering the C-section rate in the county'... I convinced myself she would say no, so the only option left to me was to either kill myself or terminate.

I am definitely going to speak to my GP before we try again as I am much stronger when I'm not full of hormones and feeling utterly terrified (I got that idea from reading your posts!).

I do live in the SE and I do appreciate that whatever happens I will struggle massively with my fear of medical professionals (1.5 years of counselling has helped a lot, but it's still there). I actually think I've got a lot of autistic / aspergus traits (Work in I.T.. Get very upset without routine etc) however it's just a thought as I've never been diagnosed and have got to the age of 34 without a diagnoses .

I just can't / won't give birth naturally - I can't do it. Witnessing my sister (I was her birth partner) being treated badly by the midwives and bleeding so much she fainted the next day / having a 3rd degree tear with over 2 hours of stitches... and having a double prolapse, getting severe PND and being told 'No, you can't have a C-section if you have another baby' and patronised during a birth debrief.... added to the trauma of an incident that happened when I was a child and was held down and stuff was 'done to me' in hospital without my consent has just completely screwed with my head.

If the choice was giving birth naturally Vs Not having children - I'd never be a Mother, however I'm hoping it won't come to that

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

Don't feel sad. More than 25% of births are c/section and your acquaintance must have been living under a rock not to have known that. Millions of us have been through it, it is honestly no biggie

[JizzyStradlin]

I bet everyone on this thread has such a posh vag that when we get our periods, the blood is blue.

[MissFlight]

What a nasty ill informed comment, please take don't let her upset you. No woman is a failure for not being able to deliver vaginally, the only thing that matters is your child being delivered safely and alive.

[RedToothBrush]

Fluffypersian, I was in a similar position to you, in considering going private due to being so afraid. Unlike other posters it was for a first baby, which is different and actually harder to get agreed.

Have you looked into trying to get an ELCS agreed in principle BEFORE getting pregnant?

This was the route I took in the end as the logistics of going private (don't live in the SE) along with the cost (I found that £10k is a conservative estimate of the cost before taking into consideration the additional costs of living so far from the SE).

I managed to get this done (after some research and some problems getting to see the right person) and get a written letter from a consultant to wave in front of people the second I did get pregnant so had my ELCS date booked exceptionally early. This letter basically gave me a diagnosis and the authority to say that my mental health meant there was a clinical need for an ELCS rather than it merely be me requesting an ELCS without a medical reason.

The way I see it, you have nothing to loose by at least exploring the option, and potentially over £10k to save.

Also, you need to be realistic about a few things - even if you have an ELCS granted, there are certain situations where you may need to be examined (hopefully won't happen) and there are certain parts of an ELCS which you may struggle with in terms of control.

[FluffyPersian]

The judginess that goes on is ridiculous. I agree with a previous post that actually getting pregnant and having a baby is success enough - I couldn't even cope with pregnancy due to depression and anxiety and the thought that the NHS wouldn't grant me a C-section pushed me over the edge.

My partner and I are now saving hard to find £10K to go private (if I am able to cope with being pregnant for 9 months) as I'll be 'too posh to push', or rather - Utterly, utterly terrified and anxious of being touched without my permission during labour and need to be in control of everything.

You're right, it IS hard enough without it all - I hope yours goes well!

[ledgeoffseason]

Honestly, she sounds like such a twat and like she is just saying it to wind you up. You don't have to justify or explain yourself to her or ANYONE. Just bloody say, 'YES, YES, I AM TOO POSH TO PUSH, AREN'T I AMAZING?!?' I am in similar situation and if anyone gave me this shit about my impending elcs I would be tempted to start telling them in graphic detail about my long, highly assisted and thus not particularly natural vaginal birth. I'd expect after details of several of the infections plus break down of episiotomy plus surgery to repair they'd be green and backing slowly out of the room. But it would be for fun, not because I need their approval. I am really against this women against women behaviour that I have only really ever experienced first hand in the arena of pregnancy and childbirth. You grew an amazing baby inside your amazing body, there is no fucking easy way to get it out of you, you're choosing the best and safest way for you right now. Well done you.

[MrsNuthouse]

Thanks for all your replies, I actually feel much better about this now. I've had a giggle about some of your comments, you are all so awesome, it's great to have this support. I have decided now that I won't discuss this whole thing with my friend anymore but if she still mentions it I will just say to her why does she think it's any of her business how I'm getting this baby out. I just wish women and especially mothers would show more support to each other and less judgmental shit. This motherhood business and pregnancy etc is hard enough without it all!

[JizzyStradlin]

Some people are a waste of organs. It was ever thus. The best thing would probably be to ignore if possible, but let's be honest many of us would struggle to. If you feel like being obnoxious in return, tell her you're doing it again to keep yourself honeymoon fresh and you feel sorry for women who end up with big saggy vaginas because they've had to huff a baby through them like animals do. Or, if it's a bloke, say you feel sorry for the husbands of women with said big saggy vaginas. Then tilt your head to one side and look very sympathetic but also a bit judgy and superior.

I've had both VB and section by the way, so a foot in both camps.

[ThursdayLastWeek]

Honestly, anyone who says that without irony (or even with, actually) isn't worth giving headspace to.

The best thing to do is laugh

Best of luck for your elcs, mine is in three weeks. I had a horrible time with DC1 too

[ScarletForYa]

She's probably resentful if she had to go through natural birth OP. Just ignore the silly cow.

[Movingonmymind]

Poor you, people shouldnt judge or comment, you've considered well, after a horrendous 1st birth and consultant advice! I should have had a c-section first time rather than 3 day labour and brutal forceps with lasting damage. People can be v ignorant.

[Mumberjack]

I should add that I've had a cs before and planning one for this baby too, both due to baby being breech and choosing not to have ecv which I felt carried risks.

[Mumberjack]

Tell her to fuck off, it's none of her business.

I second a PP who suggests mentioning the consultants input - after all you can't just wander in and 'order' a elcs as you would a McDonald's meal! It involves discussion and an agreement that it's for your baby's safety and also for your physical and mental health.

[bramble16]

It's none of their business how you are going to deliver your child so don't feel you need to tell people if you don't want. It's really odd that everyone takes such as interest in childbirth, feel they are an expert because they have given birth or know someone who has. If you had a heart op nobody would be giving their views on the medical procedure to be used!
One of my friends had a planned c section for various reasons and was told by a family member she hadn't given birth as that can obviously only be done 'naturally'. She was so upset and of course she had given birth. Really doesn't matter on the method so long as mother and baby are well afterwards.

[Cinnamon2013]

Hi OP. I can really connect with how you're feeling. I had an EMCS first time and go in for my ELCS tomorrow. What your friend said was totally insensitive but I think all the previous replies have got that covered! I found it a real journey getting to the decision, and feeling ok with the decision - and that was largely to do with societal pressures. All I can think is that for those who have had positive vaginal deliveries it's hard for them to fully understand what we have experienced. I found some people were (quietly but obviously) keen for me to have a vbac as a 'healing' thing. But we work from the experience we've already had. I realised the most healing thing possible for me would be a straightforward planned c-section with none of the drama and healthy outcomes all round.

I found this video on ELCS really reassuring and positive. You might too. m.youtube.com/watch?v=m5RIcaK98Yg

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

You don't have to have been in the position of requesting and having an elcs to think it's a horrible and also ignorant thing to say.

I've had two homebirths. I advocate having the birth that's right for you. I care that each woman is supported and able to make the decision that is right for her. What she chooses is her business and anyone who suggests that decision was made thoughtlessly or arbitrarily is hugely disrespectful and probably a bit stupid.

"Too posh to push"? What a cunt.

[Wolfiefan]

You grew a baby!
That makes you a success. Not a failure.
If you are higher risk then you will be more carefully monitored. And you and your baby will be safe.
That's the most important thing. X

[RedToothBrush]

Annie, its amazing the different reaction you will get if you say

"Me and the consultant have decided that the best course of action for my additional needs is an ELCS"

compared with

"I have decided I want an ELCS".

You can then be as vague or as detailed as possible about what 'additional needs' actually means depending on the person and their initial reaction then. 'Its complicated' covers a lot of bases, when faced with not really wanting to go into it or meeting a bit of a hostile reaction.