What do parents want from classes?

[primrosepip]

Hi, I have been asked to look at designing evidence based antenatal/parentcraft classes for the local NHS Trust.
I would like to know what parents would like to see in these classes; normally there is the normal birth, when things don't go according to plan, and breastfeeding/taking your baby home.
I would be interested to hear from both Midwives and prospective parents (or prospective parents who are Midwives :)) plus what do dads want.
I am a Midwife, Psychologist and Mum so would like to involve all angles. Thank you for your interest.

[VisualiseAHorse]

A woman actually breast feeding a child or baby.

[Hazchem]

Opps we is meant to be women.

[Hazchem]

Thurlow one of the reasons we find labour and breastfeeding awful is because they have been told it is. It may not be the only factor but it is a factor.

[Thurlow]

LeMis, you make it sound like the only reason some women find their labour awful, or breastfeeding difficult, is because they have been told it will be

[Lemiserableoldgimmer]

Personally the one message I would have liked my antenatal classes to have put across was that you don't have to do as you're told, and some honesty about the fact that choosing to have your baby in hospital is often the first step down a slippery slope to a shed load of interventions, and if having a straightforward labour is really, really important to you, then try to stay the hell away from the hospital.

[Lemiserableoldgimmer]

Well, judging from this thread, to make sure women know that:

Labour can be and often is hideous.

That your baby may die.

That planned c-sections are lovely.

That breastfeeding is often awful.

That bottle feeding is fine.



Might as well teach to the birth culture doctors, midwives and the general public have created and supported for the last 40 years.

[primrosepip]

Wow...I have just had the chance to read all of your messages and a varied bunch it is too. Sorry if my wording has offended some of you, that was not my intention. Personally I think pregnancy and labour are a time of great vulnerability for a lot of women, I certainly felt vulnerable, and no..the birth of my child was not the greatest and I felt humiliated and degraded..and I trained as a Midwife prior to this.
A lot about feeding, c sections, and after care. Its difficult for me as a Midwife because first and formost I am a woman, an individual, a person with my own assumptions and judgements; and i cannot control how another midwife will run a class, I can only offer suggestions based on what you have all been saying. For me some mention of exercise in pregnancy, pelvic floor exercises and most importantly (again for me) building a social support network...along with the rest... I will see how this pans out as I have to next ask the midwives themselves. I will let you know how this goes and thank you once again.

[Hazchem]

Squizta The person I know that has just qualified as an NCT councilor did so because she wanted to other mums to know that "normal"mums breastfeed. She's nto a hippy, not a yummy mummy, not a super mummy, just you know an average person.
Knitted I don't know if you are correcting in thinking that large percentage +of births go wrong. I think it's more that they are talked about more.
With low risks first time mums rates of normal birth

60% hospital obstetric unit
76% hospital midwife unit
83% freestanding midwife unit
90% home

www.bbc.com/news/health-15861280

[primrosepip]

Thank you all so much for all of your feedback.
I am going to put all of this, and other comments I have received from other sources into an excel sheet so that I can capture everything. Anything else to add please do.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

lass being told with great confidence how back-to-back babies turn on their own, don't worry, if you get in the right position they will turn (and hence you won't need epidural or intervention) - and if they don't you/the HCP were impatient

I was by chance on my hands and knees scrubbing paint off wooden floor boards for two weeks prior to birth, and gave birth on hands and knees with plenty of movement, baby never turned.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

I would like honesty, that actually a large percent of births go very wrong. Honesty that the largest chunk of money paid out by maternity is not for c sections but for botched vag deliveries and brain damage.

I would like support for people who want c sections and home births.

and more pushing of the idea that we are more than the sum of our parts and so what if you have a great birth, and so what if you had a bad one....its nothing to do with you per see...

and aknowledgment that c sectins are usually....calm and wonderful ( not ems)

[squizita]

PPS. Not going to put PFB in an actual rucksack. I meant the Baby Bjorn type affairs.

[squizita]

The problem is a vb and breast feeding are often linked with 'real women' shit.

Yep and I don't think many realise that the 'real earth mother' image can actually put people off and de-normalise it. I'm a city-dwelling, River Island and Band-tshirt wearing, gadget loving, estuary accented woman. I want a travel system, I can't co-sleep (medically: sleep disorder and DH is 'big') and my baby-carrier will be of the rucksack not the hippy sling variety.
I want to breast feed too!
But organic cream cotton gender neutral country life... nah love.
I sometimes worry that people I will go to for advice will judge me - slummy mummies like me FF, they don't pop little Chardonnay (joke) under their Primark vest top down Westfield. :(

[squizita]

I'm in my lessons and some things have made me due to sugar-coating ... such as the class being told with great confidence how back-to-back babies turn on their own, don't worry, if you get in the right position they will turn (and hence you won't need epidural or intervention) - and if they don't you/the HCP were impatient.
I understand from RL F&F (several of whom delivered back-to-back 100% naturally) that they DON'T always turn, some are delivered backwards and it can be much more painful.
Also told cord around the neck is never dangerous... someone mentioned a child they knew who was oxygen deprived by this (and I had a cousin die from this at birth).

I felt a bit fobbed off... I know the instructor was trying not to scare us, but it's reduced my trust in the rest of the course.

[Hazchem]

And it would be a place to point out how to get help to. So NHS direct, GP, HV, midwife, a&E, drop in clinic.

[Thurlow]

A cause for concern session sounds a great idea. You wouldn't need to go into too much depth, and you could do a hand out too, but just flagging a dozen or so things to do with you or the baby that could indicate a problem would be enormously helpful.

[Hazchem]

I'm wondering about a sort of cause for concern session? So not going into detail about all the possible problems but signs or signals that you might need a bit more help/support. It could also cover cause for concern for mum so things like PND, aftercare of wounds.

[beatingwings]

addicted- there is no doubt that tt does exist, can impact on breastfeeding and division can help.

It is often underdiagnosed. It is however over diagnosed too, and other breastfeeding difficulties attributed to tt which could be solevd in other ways.

[addictedtosugar]

Thurlow: I think you've got the right compromise there.

Beatingwings: I'm bias. I have 2 kids, both of whom have benified from a tt division. personally, it would have saved a lot of heartache if DS1 had been diagnosed earlier. Maybe therefor it is a midwife training issue? But SOMETHING needs to be done re tt, afaic

[Thurlow]

There is only so much you can cover in an antenatal class though. I would put a lot of the issues - colic, tongue tie, reflex etc - in a category where they are briefly mentioned so you're aware they exist, but postnatal support should be better and you should be told how to access it easily.

The problem at the moment is that so many PCT's seem to no longer be able to afford antenatal classes so a lot of people go to NCT classes. Which are great, but as other posters have said they are actually about 20 hours of how to hopefully have a pain relief free, intervention free vaginal birth. Which is probably what the majority of women want - but if you do end up having an emcs, elcs etc you suddenly realise that you've been to 20+ hours of classes that weren't remotely relevant!

We had a fantastic bit of cs's and what to expect in the room, how many people will be there etc, which was incredibly helpful when I did have an emcs - I wasn't worried that there were a dozen people in the room with me. But with hindsight, we had a 3 hour class on how to manage the pain and discomfit of a vaginal birth, but no mention of what you could do if you'd had a cs. 10 minutes on how the try and sit up after major abdominal surgery would have been useful!

[beatingwings]

10% is a disputed figure. Other estimates put the figure at 3%.

In the absence of decent breastfeeding support there is a current fashion to attribute breastfeeding difficulties to toungue tie.

There is no doubt that some babies have a short or closely attached frenulum.
THis does not always cause breastfeeding problems.
Even after having membrane snipped many babies still continue to have difficulties.
The danger is lots of unneccesary procedures- often performed without anaesthetic- are being carried out.

[addictedtosugar]

Beatingwings. I wouldn't call up to 10% of babies who may have a tounge tie fairly rare?

[beatingwings]

I had a life like that in the 90s'. Flew too close to the flame.

[Hazchem]

No nothing that cool. it's a terrible throw back to my mid 00's raver life :)

[beatingwings]

Are you a chemist hazcem?