What constitutes a natural birth?

[Fruitloop]

With my dd i was given a pethedine injection at 6cm dilated and had her 45 minutes later. Does that mean that I had a natural childbirth because I was later told that the pethedine would not have worked in time? By the way, I am a great advocate of pain free births but I was too fast with both children to benefit.

If you had a peth injection it should work immediately. Am I wrong?

I always thought a natural childbirth is with no intervention at all.

Depends how you look at it. To me a "natural childbirth" is one that is totally physiological - so with nothing that changes the normal physiology of mother or baby. So that would be spontaneous onset of labour, minimal monitoring, possibly non-pharmacological pain relief (but i'm not sure about that, as the pain reflex-pathway thing is a physiological part of labour), involunatary pushing and a physiological third stage. But that is just how I interpret the phrase - I suspect others interpret it differently.

I myself would not consider a birth involving pethidine to be "natural" in that sense (not saying it is "unnatural" though!) - although unless you had a ventouse/forceps/c.section then it was probably "normal".

Any help?

I must be v dim. Always though natural childbirth meant having a vaginal birth even if you were topped up to the eyeballs with an epidural.

How could anything that painful be natural

I'm with CountessDracula - natural in my world is vaginal with painkillers if necessary.

Hmmmm? What about gas & air?

I think you should be able to call it a natural birth if you felt like you really gave birth yourself, even if it was with drugs, and that it wasn't the hospital intervening every 5 minutes to force the baby out.

I had gas and air (a LOT of the stuff) and a TENS machine and I count that as a perfectly natural birth.

I agree with Doormat's definition.

Also agree that pethidine is useless for pain relief!

Does it truly matter if a birth is "natural" or not? Well, it doesn't mean very much to me, anyway. So define it how you like, if you want.

Doormat's definition must include a midwife to deliver surely? That's still intervention.

To me natural is without drugs of anykind... including no epidural and no synto (drip) or syntometrine (injection for 3rd stage) as they all interfere with your hormones and affect the delivery in one way or the other.
You can have painrelief like massage and waterbirth (or even a doula ) as they increase your natural endorphins levels but you are not injecting chemicals/pharmaceuticals...
Use of homeopathy/accupuncture/aromatherapy.... not sure where I would classify personnally.
To me gas and air is not natural (but that's my personal opinion)...

CAM - MW don't always deliver babies some (a minority) ... just attend a birth... but I know what you mean

Does it matter what 'natural' means? Does it matter how you delivered? How 'natural' it was and so on? It's exactly the sort of stuff that makes you feel really inadequate if you had to have a C section. Well I used to feel inadequate I've given that up recently.

Does it matter what 'natural' means? Does it matter how you delivered? How 'natural' it was and so on? It's exactly the sort of stuff that makes you feel really inadequate if you had to have a C section. Well I used to feel inadequate I've given that up recently.

Does it matter what 'natural' means? Does it matter how you delivered? How 'natural' it was and so on? It's exactly the sort of stuff that makes you feel really inadequate if you had to have a C section. Well I used to feel inadequate I've given that up recently.

Whoops - felt strongly but not that strongly! Sorry

Well, it obviously matters to you, Welshmum (judging by the repeats) harhar -- ok,now somebody can kick me.

CAM: actually there is a big movement for "unassisted" birth. I DO NOT advocate this, btw, but it ranges from midwife drinking a cup of tea & watching (only watching) a woman birth the baby, to not having any trained midwife present at all. And anyway, if midwife is just holding your hand & rubbing your back, can you really call that "intervention"?

The word "natural" must be one of the vaguest and nowadays most meaningless words in the English language. Right up there with "interesting".

I would say if you were talking about natural childbirth that it meant pain relief free and personally I would include gas and air as pain relief. However I suppose gas and air is hardly drugs and therefore many people would say that if they managed a vaginal birth with only gas and air it was natural - and I'm not going to argue. It doesn't matter at all Weshmum no, but that's my definition on 'natural childbirth'. What matters is a healthy baby and how they get here doesn't really matter at all. I always wanted a natural birth and consider myself lucky that I got that, but like I say I put that down to luck.

I guess it does matter to me. I'm just so fed up of people being made to feel inadequate. My friend couldn't breastfeed because she had postnatal psychosis with her DS1 and was put on serious drugs to stop it happening with DS2 - so strong she couldn't breastfeed him. She told me that she was made to feel bad a million times over by thoughtless types. I had to have a c-section because I was advised my DD could die otherwise so I had no choice. All these months later she's so fabulous I don't care how she got here.

We've had the debate b"I was made to feel" before... no one makes you feel... you choose to feel like this!
I am sure this last sentence sounds horrible - not having a go at all but just wanting to put things into perspective here !
If you have to have a section than you do ! There is NO reason to feel guilty.... if you feel guilty - ask yourself why... IMO it's ab it easy to blame others !

Now I am going to be told off

Exactly - as long as at the time you do what is best for your child. If my child had been in any danger or the birth process was stressing me and her out, or she was having a hard time getting here I would have done and taken anything to make sure she was OK, but I was lucky and that's what it comes down to - luck. It's such a shame there are people out there who think they have the right to make others feel inadequate. The only thing i think is a shame is when mothers book themselves in for a c-section for absolutley no reason - they are just too posh to push - I think that's a bit sad - but at the end of the day - what does it matter as long as the baby arrives safely?

I almost agree... but sometimes how the baby is born does matters a lot. Not because "my childbirth was better than yours", but because birthing a baby can be horrendous and traumatic if mis-managed.

(formally Abbey). i did not start this thread to make anyone feel inadequete honest. I am one of those people who has to compartmentalise everything and that is why I asked. I was quite happy to have as many drugs as possible and even begged on both ocasions for an epidual. as i previously explained, I popped my little darlings out to fast for any pain relief. I can quite happily say that I am a complete wimp when it comes to pain and on my birth plan under pain relief I had "yes please"

I think you are particularly vunerable when you've had a baby and more likely to be 'made to feel'a certain way. Sure 18 months down the line noone 'makes me feel' anything. I just hate to see my friends miserable when they've usually had a pretty awful time of it already. Suppose I'm ultra-protective and liable to snapping.....

Sorry, have to disagree with you Pupuce. There are plenty of people out there who go out of their way to make women feel bad for the choices they have made - and even more who, through their insensitive actions, achieve the same result. It's all very well to say that nobody can make you feel guilty, that it's up to you to ignore the messages you get from others - but IMO new mothers are very easily bullied.