Brain melting over what Cybex car seat to get for newborn - advice please!

[MaggieCorvidae]

I'm a FTM and have been spiralling for days over what car seat to get when the new addition arrives. I am beginning to feel unhinged and would be grateful for advice from those in the know.

I've narrowed it down to a few Cybex models...partly because I think they all have good safety scores, all go to 13kg / 87cm (as opposed to 75cm with Maxi Cosi, for example) and there are discounts on a website I have received gift vouchers for. The options from cheapest to most expensive are:

CYBEX Aton B2 i-Size Car Seat + Base One (£161)
CYBEX Aton B i-Size Car Seat + Base M (£280)
CYBEX Cloud Z2 i-Size Car Seat + Base (£409)

I am conscious of costs given how many expenses there are when a newborn arrives on the scene but was initially tempted to splash out on the CYBEX Cloud Z2 given its rave reviews, rotating chair and lie flat/recline (even in the car) features. However... I've scoured Mumsnet for advice and hung on the words of resident guru @BertieBotts and wonder if it would make more sense to get an equally safe but less expensive/no bells and whistles car seat to begin with. Whatever car seat I get would need to be able to be installed via Isofix and seatbelt harness, so we can use it in other cars if need be.

From what I've read it sounds like the rotating/spin function, while a 'nice to have', is much more useful later when child is heavier and onto their second car seat sometime between 12-24 months. I do think the recline/lie flat function sounds good if it means a safer position for the babe to be in for longer periods in the car (although I have also read reclines can arguably impact spine alignment) and transferring to the pram flat when they are sleeping and to avoid being in a sitting position too long....

At the same time, I am wary the other two cheaper models are much lighter, so better for carrying babe out of the car back into the house, especially when they get heavier. At the same time I don't think I'd use it for much more than this as an infant carrier however, since they will presumably often need to go into their bassinet pram to lie flat after being out and about in the car.

Adding to my dilemma is that I cannot find any information clarifying the difference between the CYBEX Aton B2 or CYBEX Aton B, or Base One and Base M - including on the Cybex website!

Finally, there is also one CYBEX Aton M i-Size Car Seat + Base M available in the sale. I have no idea how this is different from the Atons (despite looking for comparison charts) but I assume it is superior in some way because the original price is higher, however I really dislike the colour available.

I would be so grateful to hear which of these particular seats you would go for and why!

Apologies for the long post and thank you for bearing with my rant if you got to the end! :)

[Lavender2021]

I would avoid cybex some don't have good inserts for newborns and they are super heavy. My daughter hated the cybex cloud Z and we had headflop problems on the base due to slightly sloped seat in the car and many others have had the same problem.

The best infant seat recommend on car seat group is the Avionaut pixel Pro best inserts for all size of baby and a good height limit before needing to buy the next stage seat. It uses the same pushchairs adapters as the cybex/ maxi cosi range but the carrycot is still best for baby.
The Avionaut pixel Pro can have a isofix base you buy or seat belt to use. The Avionaut Cosmo is also recommend as cheaper but still gives a good fit, just not a great as the pixel Pro.

[LovingLivingLife]

We have always had cybex and found them excellent, here are a few thoughts from our experience

The spin function is very useful even from the beginning. Much easier to strap in a newborn that's facing you than off to the side.

The cheap and expensive options are almost equally safe. Is there a reason to go for the most expensive? Is there something that you feel would make such a big extra cost worthwhile?

A big one for us: if you're going to splash out for such expensive seats like cybex it makes sense to get one that lasts as long as possible. That means you won't be able to take it out of the car which is a small compromise but if you're willing to do that you can save so much money by getting one like this that would be good until age 4. It's not great for newborns to sleep in the car seats for any length of time anyway so I think it's really worth considering.

Cybex Gold Sirona M2 i-Size Child´s Car Seat, Rear- and Forward Facing i-Size Compliant, Without base, Group 0+/1 (Max 19 kg) From Birth Up to Approx. 4 Years (45 cm to 105 cm), Soho Grey https://amzn.eu/d/cTINJXn?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[Lavender2021]

The spin feature actually gets harder as they get bigger as you have to lift them higher and their legs get in the way, plus they are heavy.

You should only need to buy three seats for a child.
Infant seat
Extended rear facing seat (you can get rear facing seats that last until 125cm or 36kg)
A height back booster seat.

I would miss out the spin seats.
When my daughter was 2.5 or before she could climb into her own seat (rear facing) so no issue with banging her head on the doorframe.

You can buy a few seats that stay in the car, which are suitable from birth (subject to having an average size baby) The Axkid ONE2+, besafe stretch B and Avionaut Sky.

[Lavender2021]

@LovingLivingLife

We have always had cybex and found them excellent, here are a few thoughts from our experience

The spin function is very useful even from the beginning. Much easier to strap in a newborn that's facing you than off to the side.

The cheap and expensive options are almost equally safe. Is there a reason to go for the most expensive? Is there something that you feel would make such a big extra cost worthwhile?

A big one for us: if you're going to splash out for such expensive seats like cybex it makes sense to get one that lasts as long as possible. That means you won't be able to take it out of the car which is a small compromise but if you're willing to do that you can save so much money by getting one like this that would be good until age 4. It's not great for newborns to sleep in the car seats for any length of time anyway so I think it's really worth considering.

Cybex Gold Sirona M2 i-Size Child´s Car Seat, Rear- and Forward Facing i-Size Compliant, Without base, Group 0+/1 (Max 19 kg) From Birth Up to Approx. 4 Years (45 cm to 105 cm), Soho Grey https://amzn.eu/d/cTINJXn?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

The Sirona isn't great for newborns my daughter didn't fit her Sirona Z at all well at 7 months old, it would have been terrible at birth.
Lots of seats are marketed from birth but are really not suitable.

[NameChange30]

I got a Cybex infant seat and regretted it. The seat itself was heavy and babies only get bigger! Plus it didn't have a removable newborn cushion and didn't have much growing room.

My advice is to get a seat that is lightweight and has good safety ratings; the ADAC test score is a good one to check (they are the scores listed on which? and you can get a free trial of which? or just look them up for free on the ADAC website using Google translate). You really don't need to spend a fortune on the infant seat, Joie are good value for example. Having said that, if I was buying now, I'd get the Maxi Cosi Coral, which isn't the cheapest (but not horrendously expensive either). I don't know where you have vouchers for but some websites sell it for under £200.

[NameChange30]

Oh ignore me, the avionaut pixel pro suggested by PP is super light, just get that!

[Lavender2021]

Where is your voucher? Could you buy other baby stuff with it to give you more options with car seats?

[BertieBotts]

Cybex always have a million models with confusingly similar names.

As far as I can tell, the B2 is an improvement over the B and the only reason the B is more expensive is because it fits the old modular base.

The cloud is a really nice seat to have and use but personally I wouldn't spend £400 on an infant carrier seat, I think that's crazy money. Most people stop using them within a year because the baby is fed up of not being able to see out of the window. Maybe worth it if you want to use it as long as possible and plan to leave in car on spinny base when baby is older, and/or if the recline would be useful to you. I would guess (not sure) the cloud would last longer than the B2. You might even get 2 years out of it if your baby is chilled enough not to notice the low down position.

I had the Aton 5 and there were a few gripes but the more I got used to it the more I tend to think the Cybex budget models are the best budget buys on the market today. I think the inserts are actually really good and the safety ratings tend to be top notch. They did used to be heavy but their more recent models have become lighter.

Don't bother with the second stage seat by Cybex though. Get one on its own base like the Britax Dualfix or Joie spin, or one of the 25kg+ ERF seats. So don't factor base lasting for toddler seat. It's a false economy.

[prescribingmum]

@Lavender2021

The spin feature actually gets harder as they get bigger as you have to lift them higher and their legs get in the way, plus they are heavy.

You should only need to buy three seats for a child.
Infant seat
Extended rear facing seat (you can get rear facing seats that last until 125cm or 36kg)
A height back booster seat.

I would miss out the spin seats.
When my daughter was 2.5 or before she could climb into her own seat (rear facing) so no issue with banging her head on the doorframe.

You can buy a few seats that stay in the car, which are suitable from birth (subject to having an average size baby) The Axkid ONE2+, besafe stretch B and Avionaut Sky.

Second this recommendation and also the PP who said the swivel function gets harder as they get older. An ERF is much easier when older as they can climb in and out themselves whereas swivel seats have higher sides and are hard to move when heavier.

Another thing to consider is if you plan to have a second in the near future - if so then no need to have base compatible with next seat as they will use both

Based on my experience, the primary factor for first car seat (after safety ofc) would be one that is light enough to get in and out of car easily. It was so much easier taking baby in and out of house in car seat when tiny

[BertieBotts]

Cybex Aton M is older. I wouldn't bother with that if it's more expensive.

[OdeToBarney]

We've got the cloud z (not z2) and I like it, but it is heavy. DD is only little and likely won't max out height or weight much before age 2. I love the spin function and use it all the time. We've never had a head flop issue. However it's so expensive, the lie flat thing is a gimmick imo and really you can get budget options that are just as safe. I won't bother with the next stage seat for the base, I'll just get an extended rear facing seat. Have a look at the avionaut pixel Pro.

[MaggieCorvidae]

Thank you so much to everyone for your helpful replies, I really appreciate it!

@Lavender2021 Interesting to hear about your experience with the Cybex Cloud Z and head flop issues. I've read lots of reviews for this model and haven't come across this before..the biggest gripe (other than cost) has been the weight of the seat. Unfortunately the website I'm looking at doesn't sell the Avionaut range. I have decided not to get the Sirona for the reasons you mention (plus issues with the clunky spin function) - I'm after a seat from birth to max 24 months, which the Cybex models in my original post all are. The gift card is very generous so really suitable for a big purchase like this...rather than a million muslin cloths! I'm hoping I can use it for the car seat, even if I get something else in the end.

@LovingLivingLife Great to hear you've had good experiences with the Cybex. Obviously it's subjective and not all babies or their parents will like all car seats but the Cybex Cloud Z has kept appearing on lists as one of the 'best' out there, so this plus anecdotal posts on MN contributed to my thinking it might be the way to go, especially since the new version reclines in the car as well as outside.

@NameChange30 The website I'm looking at does sell the Maxi Cosi Coral and I had considered Maxi Cosi models but was reluctant because of the shorter height restrictions (75cm instead of 87cm). The Coral lift out insert sounds fab but they only sell the Coral 360 and with the base it's well over the Cybex Cloud Z2 + base price wise unfortunately.

@BertieBotts Thanks Bertie B...that was the feeling I was starting to come round to, especially after reading your replies to other anxious expectant mothers. The two cheaper Atons are much lighter than the Cloud Z2 but have the same max height/weight restrictions, so presumably would last around the same time, i.e. up to 18-24 months at best. The second stage Cybex seat (Sirona?) sounds a bit annoying in terms of the spin function and not as good as the Cloud Z2.

@OdeToBarney Reassuring to hear you've had a good experience with the Cybex, despite the weight! And good to know you also wouldn't transition to the next stage seat.

Thanks again everyone!

[BertieBotts]

The time they last is not just down to height restriction though, it is also dependent on physically how large the seat is. 87cm is massive, it's the size of an average 2 - 2.5 year old. Most 2 year olds are not able to physically fit into an infant carrier, even though they do last longer than most people would assume. 24 months is not really a realistic aim for an infant carrier - most people use them until around 12 months or until the baby can reliably sit/stand, or has consolidated their naps is a good milestone because you just don't want to be lugging them around in a massive thing once they're 9kg+ as they weigh a ton and it always feels like the handle is creaking and about to snap off. Also, legs everywhere! See attached image - DS3 aged 14 months. He was too big for this seat, would have fitted Aton M because of the headrest coming up out of the edge of the seat, but see how his legs are so long already? According to his health record, he was 75cm at 12 months. So nowhere near the height limit, and this would have just got worse as he approached 2.

Do you have a particular reason that you want it to last longer? I know that previously, I have warned people off the Maxi Cosis with 75cm limit. I still think this is a very low limit, but bear in mind that it was more of a problem about 3-4 years ago because all the seats for the next stage at that point started at approx 9kg/80cm/were designed for babies who can already sit up unsupported, especially if you wanted an extended rear facing one. Today, because more seats have moved over to the newer regulation, there are a lot of seats which are suitable from 60cm instead. It's not quite true that you can always use them from 60cm, they generally also have a requirement that the baby can sit with support, but certainly a baby outgrowing a 75cm limit seat has a lot more options today than they did a couple of years ago.

If you def want a seat to last 2 years, like for example if you were a non driver who needs to maximise the time you have a portable seat, or you travel a lot and want a seat which is portable, or maybe if you want to skip ERF and go straight to a forward facing seat, or if you wanted to use the car seat as a main seat on your buggy (not really recommended anyway) or you have an older sibling and you are trying to avoid duplicating car seats, it might make sense to really push for an extended infant carrier stage, but for most people, as long as they can get to about a year it's OK, and they don't want to use it longer than that anyway. The problem with the 75cm seats is that taller babies can hit that length at about 6-9 months, but because there are more 60cm+ crossover seats now, that is really less of a problem anyway.

The other thing is that because the stages go:

Rear facing reclined seat (infant carrier or newborn mode in multi-mode seat)
Harnessed rear facing (or forward facing) seat
High backed booster seat

You can't swap directly from an infant carrier to the high backed booster seat, in any circumstance. You have to go through the harnessed stage in between. Some people skip the ERF seat and some skip the forward facing harness seat, but regardless you have to use at least one of them. So whether the infant carrier lasts 1 year or 2 years is really immaterial. You're going to have to buy a harnessed seat anyway, unless you opt for the fixed multi-mode seat that lasts until 4/6 years covering both stages (and then you lose the pram option).

If you have a chance to look at them properly in a store, you could compare the distance to the bottom of the headrest when it's in the most extended position in all the seats. From memory, the Aton M and Cloud Z were the longest when I helped somebody measure in the shop once. But the Aton 5 that I had, the headrest did not extend as far upwards and that meant that I couldn't really use it once DC were about 10m (DS2 that was tall) and 12-13m (DS3 who was more average sized)

It's hard to tell really if the B2 can be extended up as high as the Aton M. The product video is not helpful in this regard and it doesn't seem to be on any reviews yet. It looks a little bit like the Aton S2 and Aton B2 are similar and they both have more of a flexible, insert type head support rather than a solid, plastic and foam head support like in the Aton 5 and Aton M. Hmm... perhaps that is a plus point for the Aton M in that case. However, refer to previous discussion about whether it really matters if the seat lasts the full 2 years.

[BertieBotts]

I can see that you want to buy online to use your voucher, but it might be worth looking at other things to spend the voucher on, and looking at local physical stores for your car seat, simply because checking the fit in the car before you buy is a really useful thing to do, and it's handy to have somewhere you can physically go and ask if your child looks OK in the harness or if it needs adjusting. It can also apparently be a bit of a nightmare to deal with online retailers if you ever need to send anything back for repairs, warranty claims or recalls, which is something to think about for expensive items.

If you look on the cybex website for stockists, you could see if there is one local to you, ideally not a chain. If you can find a decent local independent nursery specialist it will make your life a lot easier for car seats in particular, and I do think it's worth the extra £20-40 that you typically pay for that kind of support.

Of course another option is go to a local store (maybe a chain?) to try the seats and then buy online anyway, it's a little unethical, but you could always buy something else from the local store if you feel guilty about it!

If you think the back seats in your car are particularly sloped and the isofix points are low down as well, then it might be more important to check the fit of car seats before you buy. The other common issue people have is front-to-back space. If you or your partner are tall and your car is small, you might struggle to fit a larger seat behind the taller person.

[MaggieCorvidae]

@BertieBotts Amazingly thorough and helpful response - thank you so much!

With the exception of the Cybex Cloud Z2 (because of the cost) I am not that worried about it lasting two years...with the cheaper models if they make it to one year would be great. I originally mentioned this issue in relation to the max height/weight limit because I am trying to find pros and cons in a bid to shorten the list of options by process of elimination!

I've looked again today at other options and again considered the Maxi Cosi Pebble Pro, despite its shorter height limit. It does sound like the Pro is a better fit for newborns compared with the older model, which is good. Cost wise it's in the middle of the two cheaper Cybex options listed in the original post, so a definite contender. However, when I consider the seat weight difference - 3.9kg for the Cybex Aton B and B2 vs. 4.55kg for the Pebble...the former seems like it might be the way to go based on this alone, since lots of MNs say go light! Hmmm...

I have checked and the seats are compatible with our car but I appreciate trying them out in person would be ideal. Unfortunately I live in a rural location so it's hard to get to showrooms/stores. TBH I am also less worried about finding the perfect seat (as long as it's safe and the Cybex/Maxi Cosi models mentioned are all rate highly) if I am not spending Cloud Z2 levels of money on it. If the baby or I hate the seat, it's less of a sting if I end up replacing it sooner than later...

Thanks again for your sage like advice - much appreciated!

[Heartbreaktuna]

We hated our cloud z. Our baby never ever ever ever stayed asleep in it once we tried to lie it flat. It is very heavy. And the part of the seat which joins the pram connector broke TWICE. We had to send it to their factory in Germany. Which meant months without a car seat. Absolutely flimsy plastic nightmare. Can't believe the part isn't made of metal.
We got this instead
www.boots.com/britax-dualfix-car-seat-comos-black-10266894

[Porridgeislife]

I have the Cybex Cloud Z and bought the BeSafe Stretch at 8 months for our second car.

I love the Cybex Cloud so much. My daughter is lowish centiles and should go to 2 years in it. The spin function is extremely handy and the lie flat function was very helpful for us when clipped to the pram. Yes it’s heavy, but I had a c-section and no issues with it once 6 weeks had passed.

The BeSafe Stretch is marketed as the ducks nuts of seats but it’s far trickier to get her in & out of, doing up the belt is annoying, and it isn’t Isofix so not quick to switch between cars. I wouldn’t buy it again, not at the price.

Headflop is an issue for many seats if you have sloping car seats (BMW & VW both do). We have had it with both seats we own. You can use a wedge with certain seats to avoid it.

[NameChange30]

Would you mind telling us which website you have vouchers for?

[MaggieCorvidae]

@Heartbreaktuna well that sounds awful - I am so sorry! Gosh it's amazing how very different people's experiences can be of the same car seat. Unfortunately the model linked there isn't available where I'd like to buy mine.

[Nibletmum]

There's a group on fb called car seat safety UK - run by independent stockists and rear facing advocates. It's very helpful

[MaggieCorvidae]

@Porridgeislife Ah interesting to hear about those car models and head flop issues! We're actually looking at getting a bigger, more recent BMW before the babe arrives... and I don't think that can be changed based on the car seat since it is not under my purview! Apparently the back rest can be positioned quite vertical or sloped - I wonder if that would make a difference. I also wonder if Cybex Aton B2 or Maxi Cosi Pebble are known to be better or worse when it comes to positioning and head flop issues. Hmmm..

I guess there is only so much research one can do before biting the bullet and hoping for the best!

Thanks for your advice.

[MaggieCorvidae]

@Nibletmum - thank you!

[NameChange30]

How about the Maxi Cosi Cabriofix I-Size? It's light (3.2kg) and several websites have a bundle with the seat and base for £199. Does the website you're looking at have it?

[Porridgeislife]

@MaggieCorvidae It’s the combo of the Isofix points and the sloping seats that leads to the problem. Belted seats are better in this respect.

The Cloud Z2 can be reclined in the car which may avoid the head flop issue.

[Porridgeislife]

We have a 22 plate BMW SUV if that helps! And were loaned a 21 plate X7 and 21 plate X5 for a number of months by BMW as our car was really delayed, so we tried a few.