Car Seat Warning! Babies head falling forwards

[ShelleyJane1981]

Hi all
Just wanted to post a thread about our very recent experience buying a stage 2 car seat for our 8 month old baby girl. We went along to our local mothercare this week to buy a maxi cosi seat preferably, having researched them to be the safest on the uk market and the very helpful chap at mothercare matched us to the Axissfix. Not cheap at a whopping £350 but as it apparently lasts until she's four years, we thought we'd pay up now and in the knowledge she was safe and comfortable, have a good few years before needing to reinvest. She sat in it, in the shop - all fine. He tried the demo one in the car and checked its suitability with our car - also all fine. It was fitted, we drove home perfectly pleased with the seat and its features (this is the seat that spins around making getting baby in and out really easy, from side on position). I sat in the back with her to check she was OK while my partner drove. As she was awake and - at 8 months can obviously support her own head weight - all seemed fine. Next time we came to travel was yesterday and again for some reason, I decided to sit in the back with her. This time she fell asleep and so being floppy, her head flung forwards with such force into her chest it completely jolted her awake crying. I was so shocked to see it and the frequency at which it happened (a dozen times in 5 mins). Each time I would push her head back and even took her hat off incase extra bulk from clothing was forcing her forward but her head just continually fell onto her chest again to the point that I sat holding her head in my hands and we were forced to turn around and come home. She was completely harnessed in correctly and the seat was on maximum recline which in all honesty with this seat, max recline is about one inch down from totally bolt upright. I felt all around the base to check there were no gaps from where base meets seat - there wasn't. We re-read the manual to see if we were doing something wrong - nope. I rang mothercare who again were really helpful and rightfully so....immediately the man we dealt with said this should no way be happening and is extremely disturbing, not least because our baby is very uncomfortable but her head coming forward onto her chest if left like that for a while could seriously impact her breathing ability. We were totally shocked that a reputable 'safest' expensive seat could jeopardise our baby, without the event of an impact to or from another car. His advice was that we needed to contact maxi cosi who would send out some 'pads' we would need to try and if they failed (& he said he expected they would as he had come across this before with another customer who followed the same procedure and these pads made no difference) then maxi cosi would give mothercare the go ahead to refund and replace our seat. I cannot see how any amount of extra padding will help given that her head is coming forwards, not banging side to side so looks likely that once we've gone down that route we will end up back at mothercare experimenting with alternatives. In the meantime, we dare not use the car! I think this whole thing is pretty outrageous and really just wanted to share the experience and the warning, to please get someone to sit in the back with your baby when you've just bought a new seat. Had it been any other time of year, my partner would have been at work so chances are I would have been driving round alone with her and it could have been weeks or months before we spotted it.
As a first time mum, my experience of car seats so far hasn't been the best - the first seat we had was the silvercross one, to fit with our Pioneer pram...when our daughter was about 8 wks old my mum was sat in the back with her as she was a bit grizzly and said she couldn't believe how much her head banged from side to side, over uneven roads/pot holes etc - I felt terrible that I'd been driving round weeks on end unaware and after that had to wedge her head with rolled up small towels or muslin cloths! She's an average weight and length baby so nothing about her being particularly large or small has played a part. Please be aware that if your baby's head is flopping or falling forward, the seat just isn't suitable despite ticking all other compatibility boxes!!

[Ellarose85]

Hi op. We have sporty seats with a deep incline in the back of our car, we have just bought the Nuna rebl for our 8 month old, I can't sing its praises enough. DS head always lolled forward in his previous car seat so I was worried about it doing the same but It's not happened once when rear facing

[RachV]

Invaluable advice Shelley I had a fight on my hands getting mothercare to take it back but knowing of your experience added grist to my mill. My car seats aren't particularly inclined so I think something like a cybex on full recline may do the job but this time I'll be going to a different store and trying a few out! Thank you!

[ShelleyJane1981]

Hi Rach, well we got our money back very quickly indeed - bearing in mind mothercare told us that the procedure was that maxi cosi had to authorise it...& given the fact it was new yrs followed by the weekend meaning we couldn't get hold of anyone for days on end...I rang maxi cosi first thing Mon 4th Jan, explained the problem, that we were not prepared to have any padding we just wanted the seat out altogether and she said it was no problem and couldn't understand why mothercare claimed to be awaiting their authority!! I immediately rang mothercare who backtracked & said it wasn't so much that they were awaiting authority just that they thought maxi cosi may have had suggestions to help! I said no, that was NOT what you said at all - long story short we have made a complaint, still ongoing with that but we went to the shop hours later and got our money back. However....(!!), we have had another car seat (cybex) with loads more recline positions and it happened again. This time the shop were even worse and I think knowing the problem we'd just had (we made the mistake of telling them the carry-on we'd just had!) didn't help, I rang cybex and the overall suggestion was that we would have to have it front facing owing to the nature of the incline of our 'sporty' seats - we tried this, drove round till our daughter fell asleep and it worked an absolute treat, she never moved a centimetre the whole journey - but of course this flies in the face of all the recommendations (rear facing till 15 months). So we are back to the drawing board really when it comes to choosing one to suit our particular car - the difficulty is, in the shop with our baby in them they appear suitable, when demonstrated they do too - it's not until the baby actually falls asleep that we know whether this problem is going to arise! And needless to say, stores aren't really open to the idea of us driving around to get her to sleep in it before buying! So if it's a case of your car having inclined seats, you may have the same problem as us and take a while to find the correct rear facing seat - if it's just the child seat thats the problem then you should deffo get a refund (& if the shop resist this, a quick call to maxi cosi Mon morning will soon sort it), but if it's not so much the child seat but your vehicles seat incline, the issue will likely take longer to resolve I'm afraid. The ones we have viewed have great and multiple recline positions but this doesn't vouch for an awful lot if your vehicles seats are inclined...unless you are prepared to have your little one forward facing! Sorry for the long ramble but hope that's helped. Good luck!

[RachV]

ShelleyJanecwhat happened with this. Just fitted this seat and same problem terrified that my son will asphyxiate in it and want refund!

[dementedpixie]

Infant carriers normally do until 13kg so your lo may not have outgrown it after all

[AliceMum09]

Oh and Maxi Cosi are not the safest seats on the market at all. Britax, BeSafe and Axkid all produce rear facing seats that have passed the strictest child seat test, the Swedish Plus test. As far as I know no Maxi Cosi ones have passed, although that could be because any seat that is a combination one (so you have a choice between rear or forward facing in it) is automatically ruled out.

[AliceMum09]

I'd give up on Maxi Cosi if I were you - they really don't make a good range of extended rear facing seats at all and the one you have chosen won't keep your daughter rear facing until she's 4.

You can keep using your infant carrier for now as long as your daughter weighs less than 13kgs and her head has not yet become level with the top of the seat. The 'outgrown at 9 months' thing is very misleading, my daughter didn't outgrow our Britax infant carrier by height until she was 2 1/2 years old and has only just reached 13kgs in weight at 3 years 8 months old. Yes, she's petite, but most parents do move their babies out of infant carriers before they are actually outgrown.

[doobeedee]

This happens occasionally to DS in the Cybex Sirona if he's not scooched far enough down in the seat when it's reclined. We solve it by pulling him a little further down. I suppose ERF seats can't recline too much as they wouldn't fit in the car otherwise.

[ottothedog]

There is another thread right now about this carseat where a poster was recommended in shop but later found manufacturers website says not suitable for that car. Perhaps your car is on this list? If so, more chance of an immediate refund?

[captaincake]

I have a be safe izi kid isize and the recline is brilliant. No trouble at all with head lolling. On the other hand our britax dual fix isn't so great for it when it gets to the second stage setting. Up to 13kg it's fine though.

[ShelleyJane1981]

Laquila, lol your so right! Thanks for your recommendation, my partner has a van too so that's worth knowing. Liking the idea of somewhere independent shop-wise, always prefer to give smaller local places my business and feel they go that extra mile - have just ordered a new washing machine some £30 more than it was in currys to give business to local shop plus they install and remove for free (unlike currys!) so it's worked out....its all pay-out at the min, argh!!

[Laquila]

Humbugs was it in Wigan? Winstanleys Pramworld has a good range of ERF seats (and good knowledges/advice) and their warehouse is round the back of an industrial estate, although the actual shop is in the local town. I'd recommend them if you're up north, OP.

I have to say that I've found stage 2 car seats to be one of the most stressful parts of having a bloody baby so far!! (Only slightly exaggerating...) At least if you get the right one you shouldn't have to think about it again until she's 4!

[BahHumbugs]

Mothercare were awful when I was looking, I initially bought their own make, but it was faulty, so had to return it.

Then had a maxi cosi from Halfords, again faulty so they gave me a new one,

Then went to an independant shop, who supplies online too, on a little industrial estate.

the customer service was excellant as well as the Cybex seat itself, he even pricematched for me, he had a lot more time to give, which was appreciated.

[ShelleyJane1981]

Yep your right, deffo a due on our hands! Can't wait for maxi cosi to ring me, I was sat all last night writing the longest email ever and requested they ring me on receipt - shame it's a bank hol, I want to rant and rave at them while I'm still so mad and upset about it all! I'll have calmed down a bit tomorrow!

[Laquila]

The recline/angle of your actual car seats will make a huge difference - in my parents' Astra it was a struggle to find anything ERF that didn't tip too far forward.

Is this seat belted or Isofix? Belted seats are often recommended for cars with sloping/bucket style seats as it's easier to adjust them slightly to fit the seat shape than with Isofix. We ended up with the Joie Stages in that car. If it's a problem worth he actual child seat itself (and your car seats are at a sensible angle) and you just want to replace it, I'd heartily recommend the BeSafe range. We have their Isofix Combi in a Nissan Note which is great. It FFs too so we can use it in my husband's van when we have to, which won't take an ERF seat.

Rear-Facing Toddlers is a great FB page with lots of advice.

[ShelleyJane1981]

Thanks Chris, may well try John Lewis as we bought all pram and bits from them and found them always helpful and very knowledgeable. It's my mission today to research every place, every seat and be fully armed with the knowledge to get this matter resolved. I'm just shocked this can even happen in a seat that claims to meet every single new and up to date legislation yet risks my daughters health without so much as a bump or knock from another car! And just wanted it to be a warning to other parents really so they don't have the same problem, without knowing for some time.

[poocatcherchampion]

We had this problem too with an 8 mo in a different erf seat. We went back to the infant carrier for another 6 months.

Sounds like you bought a dud of an infant carrier

[ShelleyJane1981]

Will definitely be looking at a cybex then, thanks for that

[Chrisinthemorning]

Ok it sounds like your infant carrier is only for very little babies. Sorry
We went for the Besafe izi combi which RF to 18kg but the newer version RF to 25kg. I was happy to keep him RF and he has just turned FF in the Britax Advansafix at nearly 4. We bought it from Mothercare but I find with them you have to do all your research online and then tell them what you want. John Lewis were a bit better.
ICSS are helpful over the phone if too far for you.

[ShelleyJane1981]

That's worth knowing about In Car Safety, thanks for that we'll look into it. As nice and helpful as they were at mothercare, I'm done with them now and want to go elsewhere. Guess now this has happened I'll have a much clearer idea myself of what to look for reclining wise, rather than being reliant on their advice and suggestions. We had originally gone in to purchase the maxi cosi pebble at £200 plus isofix base £190 but went for this because firstly its reputation being a maxi cosi seat and when coming down to a toss of the coin between the two, this one worked out £40 cheaper yet had the feature of being able to turn baby to the side for ease of getting her in and out when we open the door - couldn't care less about anything fancy now, just want her safe and comfortable and will be driving round till she falls asleep soon as its fitted, if she flops we'll be straight back within minutes!!!

[BahHumbugs]

Another vote for Cybex here, by far the most safest in all which reports, crash tests etc, absolutely love ours.

[kinkytoes]

Just wanted to add we've got the normal axiss and not had these problems. This one looks very different.

[43percentburnt]

I agree the cyber sirona which is rear facing until 4 is good. Ds can see out the side window, rear and using a mirror out the front window. The mirror enables the driver to see him. He falls asleep regularly and looks comfy.

In car safety centre is very good for car seat advice, you need to book an appointment and they will go through all options.

[caker]

I second In Car Safety Centre, they aren't near us at all but it was worth the trip, we're really happy with the extended rear facing seat we got.