School appeals panel for bullying what can I expect?

[skllanel]

Bullying is physical and racial. Proof from the school itself. My daughter is not white and was targeted by multiple white pupils but 1 person in particular. Under the age of 10.

What can I expect from this? Stage 1, 2 & 3 are filled with inconsistencies which I have proven. No parents contacted despite me providing witness names. Overall seems the faculty are panic protecting each other. Head is belligerent. Staff have lied.

Never had to do this before and just want advice from someone who has. I won't let it go even if it ends up in court due to the damage caused.

We have moved schools.

Thank you

[JennyForeigner]

I hear a lot of stage 3 school complaint (appeal stage) which I take it is what is being referred to here, rather than admission appeals.

Gently, I would say that schools are often less worried about complaints than parents think, because the process is supposed to be resolution in itself rather than really directing elsewhere. You have mentioned court for example, but a school complaint process wouldn't transfer into a court. If there has been criminal conduct against your daughter then that would reported and an individual held accountable through criminal processes. Outside of that, it would be very difficult to show that a school has failed your daughter in a way that amounts to a civil case, although they could absolutely have failed her.

I would put that out of your mind. For this stage you should be going in front of an independent panel and should focus on why you think previous stages of the complaints processes or policy have not been correctly applied. You need to be clear and specific about what resolution you want at this stage. Saying something like 'heads to roll' will not cut it. Your daughter has moved on and the panel can't turn the clock back. What they can do though is make binding recommendations on the school/trust to improve the school for other students like your daughter. If the trust then refuses to act on recommendations they will have to explain why, and the correspondence may be viewed as part of future Ofsted inspection.

[skllanel]

@JennyForeigner

I hear a lot of stage 3 school complaint (appeal stage) which I take it is what is being referred to here, rather than admission appeals.

Gently, I would say that schools are often less worried about complaints than parents think, because the process is supposed to be resolution in itself rather than really directing elsewhere. You have mentioned court for example, but a school complaint process wouldn't transfer into a court. If there has been criminal conduct against your daughter then that would reported and an individual held accountable through criminal processes. Outside of that, it would be very difficult to show that a school has failed your daughter in a way that amounts to a civil case, although they could absolutely have failed her.

I would put that out of your mind. For this stage you should be going in front of an independent panel and should focus on why you think previous stages of the complaints processes or policy have not been correctly applied. You need to be clear and specific about what resolution you want at this stage. Saying something like 'heads to roll' will not cut it. Your daughter has moved on and the panel can't turn the clock back. What they can do though is make binding recommendations on the school/trust to improve the school for other students like your daughter. If the trust then refuses to act on recommendations they will have to explain why, and the correspondence may be viewed as part of future Ofsted inspection.

It's stage 4 in my instance and my solicitor has already advised we can absolutely take it legal due to racial assault. I am currently drafting a department for education letter with the help of a solicitor due to being certain this will be ignored further. I have call and meeting recordings which directly show the school being dishonest in their complaint findings also.

I've already provided them what I would like and it was never ever heads will roll. They ignored it anyway as the head is an arrogant individual with no people skills.

It's disheartening to see you almost implying this is pointless and the school do not care. Where is the accountability for the schools if not through this process?

[JennyForeigner]

There is a difference between accountability and schools having to be answering for criminal or civil harms which are heard in other jurisdictions. And then there are safeguarding complaints, which can be taken to Ofsted and can trigger inspection. I think you would find that a complaint of racially aggravated abuse would be taken very seriously there.

But I say this in all kindness and wanting to help you, please don't think a solicitor has a role to play here. Legal representation is not allowed in school complaints because of the jurisdiction issues and because they are designed to be between the family and the school with the parties jointly committed to resolution. I have worked with families who have spent thousands and thousands of pounds on lawyers when all it can achieve is a letter that you could write yourself. If someone is telling you differently, then press them on exactly what they can achieve for you and where.

If you believe that someone has committed a crime against your daughter, it is a police matter.

Lastly, I don't aim or want to discourage you but you do need to know what you want from this final stage of the complaint process. Whether it is called stage 3 or stage 4 is meaningless - schools write their own policies and can put in as many stages as they like but the process must have a final appeal stage which is a chance to speak to independent panel members who will want to help you, but can only deliver forms of resolution that are in their power and in most cases an apology and commitment to improve is the most that they can offer.

[JennyForeigner]

Oh and please don't record meetings. It very rarely helps, is taken as an indicator that you are not committed to resolution, and notes and records of meetings are a professional rather than a verbatim minute anyway.

What you see as proof of dishonesty by the school won't be accepted by a panel, would only be accepted in court under vanishingly unlikely circumstances and is a dangerous habit to get into. It is very important that you focus on developing a relationship of trust with your daughter's new school and when the time comes, are able to focus on her education and ability to thrive in her new setting.

[Ametora]

You need to focus on what you want any resolution to be. You have moved schools which is a factor.

Under the age of 10 is primary- so no faculty involved.
There is no role for a solicitor- even in a DfE review of a complaint (and it wouldn't be the DfE possibly)

https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-school

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-education/about/complaints-procedure#:~:text=When%20we%20receive%20a%20complaint,when%20we%20receive%20your%20complaint.

I am concerned that you are being taken for a ride by a solicitor

[FuckinghellthatsUnbelievable]

We had a terrible time with bullying of eldest DS. We complained council investigated . Took years, they lied, it never got anywhere. Spoke to other parents, they all had similar experiences. Kids being moved schools as it wasn’t managed atall.


Honestly it’s a waste of energy.

[hiredandsqueak]

Yes it's a waste of time. My stage one HT refused to answer, stage two chair of governors never mentioned reason for complaint,told me the school was outstanding and I was difficult, stage three board of governors said complaint had been properly handled. DfE advised school how they should handle a complaint. Ofsted accepted the complaint raised concerns regarding SLT and management and formed basis of next inspection.
Different for me because I didn't actually care tbh I pressed the complaint in revenge for them turning up at SENDIST,dd never set foot in the school. They messed up by not answering my complaint so I set out to make them pay.

[Lougle]

Under the age of 10 there is no criminal responsibility, so I'm not sure the behaviour can be called assault. Is your complaint about school's response rather than the actions of the children?

[DNAHOY]

What would you like to happen?

what would you like to happen to the children that aren’t yet aged 10?

what would you like to happen to the staff? How many would you like to be disciplined/lose their jobs?

what would your ideal outcome look like?

[skllanel]

@Ametora

You need to focus on what you want any resolution to be. You have moved schools which is a factor.

Under the age of 10 is primary- so no faculty involved.
There is no role for a solicitor- even in a DfE review of a complaint (and it wouldn't be the DfE possibly)

https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-school

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-education/about/complaints-procedure#:~:text=When%20we%20receive%20a%20complaint,when%20we%20receive%20your%20complaint.

I am concerned that you are being taken for a ride by a solicitor

I am a solicitor with a solicitor who specialises in local authority cases (think social services) there is a lot more to this, including the head teacher defaming my character which will all go legal once this is done.

As stated in my previous response I have told them 3 times what I would like. It is not something I need to continue to send them.

[skllanel]

@DNAHOY

What would you like to happen?

what would you like to happen to the children that aren’t yet aged 10?

what would you like to happen to the staff? How many would you like to be disciplined/lose their jobs?

what would your ideal outcome look like?

I do not want anyone to lose their jobs. Some of you are highly dramatic.

The head is a massive idiot who has a huge ego and no tact but even then, wouldn't suggest in a cost of living crisis anyone should lose employment.

The child under 10 has a mother who puts her at risk of sexual harm due to prostitution. The child needs saving and the school needs to ensure they protect children in future. It needs to be acknowledged and other children who they are now bullying need to be kept safe. Unlikely tho! Least it'll be on record for the next parent who has to complain.

[skllanel]

@Lougle

Under the age of 10 there is no criminal responsibility, so I'm not sure the behaviour can be called assault. Is your complaint about school's response rather than the actions of the children?

Indeed it can be called assault irregardless of age. In the same way physically smacking another child in the head with a bat is assault. Just because this child is under the age of criminal
responsibility doesn't remove them from having assaulted someone.

I am not sure why you responded with this either it wasn't in my question!

[Soontobe60]

If you are a solicitor, why are you asking for advice on here? If your child has been a victim of a racial incident in primary school I would assume the school has followed their Racial incident policy in dealing with it. That policy will not say that the parent of the victim will be informed of any actions taken against the perpetrators. Nor would the victims parent be told if the perpetrators parents have or have not been spoken to. I’m also assuming that you were not present when this incident happened - so the witness names you have provided are irrelevant.
What has the comment about a child’s parent being a sex worker got to do with this? Why do you automatically assume the child is at risk of sexual harm? I’m sorry, but you come across as highly judgemental. Also, the way you talk about the Headteacher could also be seen as being defamatory on your part.

[soupfiend]

You dont sound like a solicitor, with phrases like 'go legal'

If your daughter has been assaulted, that is a police matter.

If you feel your daughter is not safeguarded at school that is a complaint issue

If you feel that you have been defamed that is a civil law matter although Im sure you know, being all legal and that, that you have to prove that you have suffered losses through defamation of character.

[skllanel]

@soupfiend

You dont sound like a solicitor, with phrases like 'go legal'

If your daughter has been assaulted, that is a police matter.

If you feel your daughter is not safeguarded at school that is a complaint issue

If you feel that you have been defamed that is a civil law matter although Im sure you know, being all legal and that, that you have to prove that you have suffered losses through defamation of character.

Would you like me to send you law degree and cv redacted? I also swear a lot and if I'm honest grew up quite unfortunate so rough around the edges

I'll go legal if I want 🤣

[skllanel]

@Soontobe60

If you are a solicitor, why are you asking for advice on here? If your child has been a victim of a racial incident in primary school I would assume the school has followed their Racial incident policy in dealing with it. That policy will not say that the parent of the victim will be informed of any actions taken against the perpetrators. Nor would the victims parent be told if the perpetrators parents have or have not been spoken to. I’m also assuming that you were not present when this incident happened - so the witness names you have provided are irrelevant.
What has the comment about a child’s parent being a sex worker got to do with this? Why do you automatically assume the child is at risk of sexual harm? I’m sorry, but you come across as highly judgemental. Also, the way you talk about the Headteacher could also be seen as being defamatory on your part.

Are you a teacher? That's what it sounds like.

30 other parents across the school feel the same about the head. That in itself would be a defence to defamation under truth and honest opinion. What is he going to sue for? The fact his personality is extremely difficult, rude and he seems almost terrified of women? If I called him sort despite him maybe being offended he could not sue. Because it's true. He's about 5'1 and an egomaniac.

I am here because I have never been through a panel like this and do not know what to expect. It is entirely as it says in the thread.

I have read the process but let's be honest, schools seem to do what they like so I have 0 belief any of it will be followed.

As for the racial policy. They are denying it happened only to slip up in my stage 3 and send it in writing it did happen 🙃 the more ya know, eh.

[Soontobe60]

You’re really not a solicitor are you? Your post makes no sense. What exactly is your end goal?

[skllanel]

@Soontobe60

If you are a solicitor, why are you asking for advice on here? If your child has been a victim of a racial incident in primary school I would assume the school has followed their Racial incident policy in dealing with it. That policy will not say that the parent of the victim will be informed of any actions taken against the perpetrators. Nor would the victims parent be told if the perpetrators parents have or have not been spoken to. I’m also assuming that you were not present when this incident happened - so the witness names you have provided are irrelevant.
What has the comment about a child’s parent being a sex worker got to do with this? Why do you automatically assume the child is at risk of sexual harm? I’m sorry, but you come across as highly judgemental. Also, the way you talk about the Headteacher could also be seen as being defamatory on your part.

As for the sex worker - she has clients in her home whilst the child is there. Clients meaning multiple.

Someone saw it on the ring doorbell footage and notified the authorities I believe. Imagine a child being asleep whilst 6-7 men an evening swan in and out? It's dangerous at least and yes I do judge that aspect of it because it's exposing her child to unnecessary risk of harm. If you see no issue with that I would rather you didn't provide further response as it would seem we feel differently on keeping children safe.

[skllanel]

@Soontobe60

You’re really not a solicitor are you? Your post makes no sense. What exactly is your end goal?

No I really am, my post makes a lot of sense if you read it without wanting to defend the school and the belligerent head.

You came in here a little combative and continue to be. I used to work in finance and management - would you like to make further assumptions based on my writing style?

I know doctors who spell worse and word things worse... we are all human you know. At almost 60 you should know this.

[Lougle]

@skllanel

Indeed it can be called assault irregardless of age. In the same way physically smacking another child in the head with a bat is assault. Just because this child is under the age of criminal
responsibility doesn't remove them from having assaulted someone.

I am not sure why you responded with this either it wasn't in my question!

That is the hazard of posting on a forum. You get a range of views and people don't necessarily follow your exact line of questioning.

[anonhop]

@skllanel a central part of being a solicitor is writing coherent, persuasive and well-founded arguments. I appreciate that you feel strongly about this but your story is inconsistent (first you were taking the advice of a solicitor, and now you are one), your language is strange and your whole thread is incoherent.
I hope you are better able to organise your thoughts when it comes to giving evidence to the panel...

[artfuldodgerjack]

So presumably if a child is at risk, you have been to social services and police?

[DNAHOY]

So you’re wasting a tonne of money because you don’t like the head basically?

-your kid now goes somewhere else
-you don’t want anyone sacked but you’ve STILL not said what you DO want

-claim to be a solicitor but you’ve totally shown your arse with childish comments about this man’s height
-made judgemental comments about the other child’s mums private life (again, apparently this top solicitor’s evidence for this is that ‘someone saw someone on a ring doorbell’). Even if the child’s mum is a prostitute it’s none of your business and irrelevant to the incident at school between two children

Id save your money because I doubt the school are as worried as you’d like them to be. Your points are confusing and you come across as petty and a gossip. This solicitor is stringing you along because you’re foolish and they’ll be getting easy money, but I guess you’d know that, as you are also a solicitor 😅

[Soapboxqueen]

I think what you can expect is disappointment.

As pp have said, very little is going to happen. This is why people are asking specifically what you want because in all likelihood your aren't going to get anything.

Your child is at another school now so nothing will change for them.

If the children are young it's unlikely the police will get involved as they'll refer back to the school.

If you think other children are at risk of harm you should contact the relevant authorities yourself. However how you'd know the specifics of another child's circumstances, that the school had been informed of a safeguarding issue and what the outcome had been (eg referral to ss) is anyone's guess.

You can absolutely take the head to court for defamation but there's no guarantee you'll win and I suspect the costs would outweigh any rewards.