Considering BF a friend's baby to help her keep going!

[ChairmumMiaow]

A friend (who I posted about here a few weeks ago) is still struggling to BF. She carried on expressing and cup feeding, switched to bottles and is now struggling to express. She still keeps trying her DS with the breast, but is getting quite upset about it and is foreseeing giving up.

When her sister visited her at the weekend, they were wishing for someone else to try her DS at the breast just to see if he would give it a go. I had previously thought it would be wierd, but recent contact with lots of teeny babies has made me comfortable with the idea of feeding someone else's baby. (and the timing of this is quite funny with the current discussions going on!)

I have no idea if offering her DS a feed would actually help, but I think if he would take a feed from me (who would be relaxed etc and could get let-down going using my own DS!) it might give her the confidence to try a little harder (I think she's very scared of failing and is resisting babymoon/bath ideas)

Am I being crazy or could I actually help?

[pointydog]

It does make me wonder to what extent this woman wants all this help.

[tiktok]

Mothers do get scared about phoning a helpline - all sorts of reasons, including being worried about crying, being wary in case they feel judged, scared that the bfc will say 'there is no hope for you at all'.

But if she wants good help, it has to be an option. The bfc will not normally call her, even if you ask on her behalf...at least that's the case with NCT. The bfc cannot know if her involvement will be welcomed unless the mother herself calls - this protects the mother and the counsellor. I have sometimes taken calls from a partner, friend of grandmother when the mother is in the room, but I will ask, quite strongly, to speak to the mother direct. If the mother refuses to speak to me (or the caller refuses to ask the mother) then I cannot continue with the call beyond giving basic information.

[ruty]

yes another vote for Ameda Lactaline pump - my milk would have dried up in the first month or two if i hadn't had it. Wonderful.

[fishie]

that sounds a great plan chairmum. do you think she is daunted or worried about contacting a bfc? i was a bit scared about ringing, there's some advice about how best to do it on hunker's blog.

[princesslina]

HI I just want to say what a lovely friend you are she is lucky to have someone so caring and supportive. Could I also offer another suggestion perhaps she would like to try a Medela Supplemental Feeder, this way she could supplement with expressed breast milk (her own or donated from sister/friend) or formula is she has to, but baby wil still be suckling at the breast and thus stimulating flow and milk production. If touble latching she could try 'lathching' baby onto her finger first with or without the supplemental feeder and then move onto the breast. The Dr Jack Newman DVD is fantastic if you could get hold of a copy for her, alternatively there are tips and vids on his site www.jacknewman.com. HE is also fantastic at replying to emails and he also has some good information on increasing a mothers milk suppy. There was also a fantastic topic on here that had loads of info on breastfeeding all gathered together in one place, so could search for that.
xxCaroline

[StealthPolarBear]

i know they'r generally frowned on but has she tried nipple shields? if it's the shapw of the breast that's a problem?
personally i think a bfc is the best bet by a long awy

[Hangingbellyofbabylon]

Chairmum, you are a great friend and I think your plan sounds excellent. I didn't realise your friend has been hand-pumping, she's done so well to get this far. The hire pumps are great but if she does decide to go long term with it, i can recommend the Ameda Lactaline - it's a great double pump and really portable. As you say the night pumping is essential although a total pain in the arse, it is really essential to establish a good supply. I think she would find that double pumping really helps, it doubled my supply almost immediately. Best Wishes to you and your friend.

[ChairmumMiaow]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the messages. This is what mumsnet is great for - really making you think (and honestly, if I hadn't been prepared for the "no" replies I wouldn't have posted)

How about this for an action plan:

1. Get her to hire a double breast pump instead of a hand pump to make that side of things easier for her so she can hopefully panic a bit less
   
2. make sure she's expressing at night too to preserve her supply
   3)Send her the BF hepline numbers again
   4)look up a local BF group for her
   5)start another thread on here to collect stories about babies that miraculously starting breastfeeding after a number of weeks to keep her encouraged. (please please post if only messages of encouragement if you see this)
   
   I know she's visiting her family around here soon, so do you think it would help if I encouraged her to come to the BF support group I go to if she's worried about going on her own?
   
   Thanks for all your messages - I really hope we can help her get this working.

[ruty]

yes please help her to do a babymoon [hate the term too] I had severe problems breastfeeding thistime around, and if anyone had helped me to do this it would have been wonderful. my dd is just starting to breastfeed properly now at 4 months, have been expressing and bottlefeeding expressed milk mostly until now, but she has suddenly started to want the breast, so it can happen.

[Twiglett]

'ripped the tits off' .. ... yes I can see that

[Sycamoretree]

I know you mean well, but I'd have ripped the tits off any woman who successfully BF'd my DD where I was failing. I personally can't imagine anything more heartbreaking for a new mum than seeing her LO happily sucking away on another woman's breast but not on mine. I totally get that you are in earnest and best intentions etc, but seriously, it took me having another LO and finally successfully BF'ing with lots of MN help and advice and a million and one sessions with a BF counsellor to actually get over the crippling guilt, and I'd go so far as to say Grief, over not having that with my DD1.
I know this is very much in the news and topical right now, and I'm sure there are many situations in which it is a good thing/helpful, but I can HONESTLY say, even if it ultimately helped me get BF'ing successfully, I'd always look back and think it wasn't because of me, it was because of this other woman and her bloody perfect boobs and bloody perfect mothers instinct for BFing.

[thisisyesterday]

unfortunately a breastefefding counsellor will not come out unless the mother has asked her to.

perhaps she would go to a babycafe with you if there is one locally?

oh, and visit kellymom and print off tons of info on getting a breast refuser back to the breast.

[Twiglett]

I am coming back to this to stress how misguided, but well-meant, I believe this approach is. I actually think it's rather overpowering .. and even if she has talked about it I would assume there was a desperation there in the discussion.

It just sits uncomfortably with me that her sister and her friend would be discussing taking this power away from her rather than reassuring her the midwife was talkign crap .. she has a 3 week old, she is very very fragile

get a good BF counsellor round to her to discuss with her and leave the room

[fishie]

cm you can't do this for her. you have to help her to do it herself. you / she will get a lot of help here if needed. she is probably scared and overwhelmed and she really does need to talk to a bfc. you could help her with that.

hbb that is a very poignant tale.

[MayBloom]

I wouldn't because I think having another woman feeding my baby is icky (so shoot me!) and I think it would make her feel completely crap if it was successful, in all honesty.

I think it's great that you're so pro breastfeeding and want to help, but I'd worry that this is perhaps a step too far. What would happen if her baby bf from you, but then refused to feed from his mother? Not only would it make this poor woman feel like a complete failure, it may push her into an early bout of pnd. It could also rock the relationship between the both of you if she sees that her baby accepts your breast, and not hers - resentment, jealousy?! I know I'd start harbouring sad/angry feelings towards a mother that could feed my child when I couldn't. Honestly, how shit would you feel? Especially in the early days when your hormones are all up in the air.

I'll say it again, being pro breastfeeding is great, feeding someone elses baby is a completely different matter and imho, not a great idea in this situation.

[Hangingbellyofbabylon]

I had a similar situation with dd1 - we went down the cup feeding and expressing route and after about a month (dd never latched on) my sister offered to try and feed her and said I could try to feed her 6 month old dd. My sister had small boobs and small nipples versus my mega boobs and nipples. Anyway, my dd latched on to her straight away to her and guess what her dd refused me. tbh it was a bit heart-breaking, I wanted to breastfeed with all my heart and it was upsetting to think that she would accept another breast but not my own. As it happens I went on to express full-time for her for 6 months but I still have that image of my little dd sucking contentedly away at my sisters breast. I did manage to express for 6 months so it ended up a very positive story and then went on to breastfeed dd2 who was premature and tube-fed and in theory should have been the harder one to breastfeed. I would think really carefully about offering to do this for you friend and it could back-fire; offering your support for expressing would really be good. It's really tough at first just coping with all of the continuous steralising etc.

[pointydog]

She won't phone a helpline but she'll have someone else bf her baby?

What's her fear?

[supercollider]

I think it's a lovely idea in theory, but the answer might depend on how close your friendship with her is, and whether she would feel that she can discuss the idea with you completely honestly. Which is something that only you can judge, probably!

Also agree that she should get some proper BF advice, if she hasn't already.

[ChairmumMiaow]

baby is just over 3 weeks, and she's still coping on just EBM but apparently expressing is getting harder, hence her worries.

The trouble is that she won't phone one of the helplines, so I guess I've jumped on something that she has thought about doing, that might help.

It just makes us sad that she was so determined to BF when she was pregnant, and its not happening for her at the moment.

[fishie]

cm she needs proper qualified bfc help, not an unhelpful midwife. you say a few weeks in, how old is the baby and is she just feeding ebf or formula too?

[fishie]

yes babymoon is yuck, but 'skin on skin' isn't very alluring either. still not as bad as my uttermost hated 'dreamfeed'.

[thisisyesterday]

I had a breast refuser.
he refused for 10 days and then suddenly did it.
there are lots of things she can do to help. has she tried a supplemental nursing system?

expressing to get a let down and then latching him on?

[pointydog]

I can't see how this would help.

[ChairmumMiaow]

I would never offer out of the blue, but it wasn't me that brought up the idea!

I can see where you're coming from with making her feel worse, but a "helpful" midwife called her DS a "breast refuser" and I think she's convinced that he's just not going to do it.

I think if she does think its a good idea, there would have to be a serious chat about it first!

I get quite emotional when people who wanted to BF struggle, so will jump on anything I can do to help!

[Twiglett]

aha like I said in my first post .. only it has been named an insipid foul schmaltzy name since I last breastfed [bleugh]