Can a nursery ban breastfeeding on its premises?

[gemmamc]

I wonder if anyone here has had a similar experience. I am settling my ds into nursery. He is 10 months and still b/f. I still feed him during the day (as opposed to just in the morning and evening) because

1. I haven't managed to get him to take milk from a bottle and
   
2. because he needs a lot of breast milk for his Calcium: he is not much into solids yet and he can't have cheese, yoghurt, etc...He asks for the feed, and I have been giving it regularly around 2-3 pm.
   
   When I picked him up Friday at 2 pm he was desperate for a feed. But when I asked whether it was ok of to b/f there (I guess I shouldn't have asked, I should have just done it!) I was told I couldn't feed him on the premises because "there are children around"(!!) and because other parents may get upset. I had to put him screaming in the pram and go home.
   
   Soon I will have to leave him in there full time because of work, and I was hoping to drop in and feed him in the middle of the day (I work from home not too far from the nursery) as long as he still needs it. I know people who have done this in other nurseries...
   
   But now I am really shocked by such a b/f- unfriendly policy and I even wonder if it's totally legal or at least consistent with guidelines for nurseries. It's known locally as a very good nursery, and I live in a part of London where breasfeeding is very widespread, so I didn't expect this at all.
   
   I can't change nursery easily as there are waiting lists (also for good childminders there are waiting lists here!). What should I do? I can't afford a nanny by the way. I feel discriminated against too, because b/f for me is not so much a choice but a necessity given ds's allergy.

[chipmonkey]

myredcardigan, I wondered that too!

[Turniphead1]

Sorry just read your reasons for not naming and shaming and that's fair enough. I don't actually live there just very nearby. Just being nosey I guess.

Best of luck getting a CM.

[Turniphead1]

Stokey!?! Unbelievable. So out of order. Which nursery, you are well within your rights to name and shame imo...

[myredcardigan]

I wonder if the manager called you because she, or another member of her staff are a mumsnetter and have read this thread.

I hope you get something sorted soon.

[lizzytee]

gemma, when caught in the lurch I have used an emergency nursery at Canary Wharf called Little Herons, right next to Heron Quays DLR, which I have always been very happy with. Possibly not convenient for you though. There is also an agency called (I think, you'll need to google it) emergencychildcare.com but I haven't used their services.

[cockles]

It sounds like it might be a bit more negotiable now, if the manager is saying there isn't a policy against it - I know how random nursery 'policies' can be - would it be worth perservering if you're happy with the place in other ways?
I may not be seeing the whole point though as I have a speedy feeder who at this age was only ever attached for 5 mins - I do see 20 mins is rather different. Very best of luck and I'm so sorry you're going through this at such an awkward time!

[gemmamc]

also - to those who said "never ask permission to bf" I just wanted to clarify that I didn't do that, just like I never do (with the possible exception of very old people, in which case I don't ask permission but I just kind of warn them I am about to do it).

At the nursery, I just asked whether I could breasfeed in the spot we were standing in (meaning that very spot at the entrance, as opposed to somewhere else, just in case they did have a place where I could sit more quietly - my ds gets very distracted and I prefer quiet places if they are available). The woman did however think I was asking for permission, which is probably why she felt it would be ok to say it would be better not to.

[cockles]

Stoke Newington?!?! My god. I'm there too. Obviously not at your nursery though. Would be very interested to hear which one it is.

[gemmamc]

ok maybe I exaggerated about the press.

charliegal LLL meetings could be a good forum to bring this up and I had certainly thought about it. I'll be happy to tell you privately which nursery it is - but please before we get into campaigning mode....first can we wait until I get my deposit back in the post?

[TinkerBellesMum]

There are always stories like this around, in the press. Did you get involved in the breastfeeding picnic? It may be something your local group would be interested in.

[charliegal]

I am bfing ds (22 months)-would love to visit the nursery as prospective parent and bf in front of crazy lady.

Never ask permission.

[charliegal]

stoke newington? I cant believe it.

I live in e8 and would be happy to help. I really want to know the name of the nursery too.

I go to la leche league meetings in stoke newington- they would be very interested.

[gemmamc]

Mama, not sure about the press thing. I'll think about it if someone approaches me. But are they really interested in this stuff anyway? I think they just look for stories that are controversial and extreme, like people who b/f children as old as 7 or people who would pay another woman to breastfeed - not the normal everyday problems we face as breastfeeding mothers....

Having been a journalist myself in the past I don't trust them now

[gemmamc]

domesticslattern, I have no idea how the CAT system works but I'll be happy to respond. Of course I am talking about this to my local NCT friends and other mums in the area - that's inevitable and I am not particularly trying to stop myself. I do think people need to be aware of this problem and the nursery will have to feel some pressure in order to change.

bluejellybean - home visits? Not sure I know what that is, certainly I haven't had anything like that. Nor have I had a huge amount of induction - just a chat with his key worker at the beginning and end of each day during the first 2 weeks of settling in. Only on the first day she went through my routine and other issues with me for about an hour. At that point I told her I wanted him to be fed from a cup with prescription formula, but tbh he has been refusing the stuff for months, and she didn't succeed in convincing him either (I was hoping she might).

I later gave the nursery EBM in a cup, but he didn't take it (he used to take it from a chimdminder we used a couple of months ago who unfortunately is not available now). In any case I am having trouble getting much milk out these days...

After that failed, as a last resort I was hoping I could bf him on the premises in the middle of the day, but that's when the problems started.

lizzytee - work isn't just looming - I have actually started yesterday! Today I was already unable to do any work, but as I work from home nobody may have noticed although they soon will if I don't deliver...Tomorrow my cleaner is going to babysit for a few hours, and then we'll see...I may need to use an agency or something (any reccomendations?)

[MamaHobgoblin]

Can understand your qualms about naming and shaming online, but please do consider going to the press (I there's a difference! ) - you could really make a difference to the policy. Am outraged for you - unfuckingbelievable attitude from a nursery.

[morocco]

sounds like the right decision. I hope you get childcare sorted that you are much happier with and with more accommodating staff.

[bluejellybean]

Just a though......you should contact OFSTED with your experiences. This will reflect in their judgments of the nursery's ability to meet each child's needs.

[lizzytee]

gemmamc, really glad this discussion has helped your thinking. I am a working mum so understand how large childcare looms, particularly if you are preparing to go back to work. But equally I agree you deserve a pat on the back for standing up to the nursery about this, it is good that the manager appears to be taking the matter more seriously than his/her deputy. Keep posting and let us know how you get on.

[bluejellybean]

My son has just started Nursery and they have bent over backwards to follow ALL our routines and feeding pattens. He is also 10 months although now on soilds and follow on milk.

You may well find your son finds soilds much easier at nursery, they love to copy each other! My son hated water from a cup but as they all sat together having tea, he just joined in and now loves water!

A good nursery will always follow a babys needs, so I question how good this nursery is? Did you discuss B/F and feeding in general at his home visits and introduction days?

[domesticslattern]

Gemmamc- I know what you are talking about. I wrote on here about problems with a City nursery, and didn't name and shame for the reasons you give. But I did tell the name to the (few) people who CATed me.

Could you offer the same? I would be interested to know as I live just the other side of Clissold Park from Stoke Newington.

[gemmamc]

I feel a bit akward about naming and shaming on the Internet - it feels a bit unnecessary and irreversible (what if they were to change something as a consequence of my conversation with them today and my possible complaint to Ofsted? What I write here will stay for years and can't be deleted...).

But if it helps I live in Stoke Newington - an area where normally public bf-ing is not an issue. I guess it's worth asking when visiting a nursery what they do to support breasfeeding mothers.

[pudding25]

Dreadful. Please name and shame. I am in London and trying to sort out a nursery and want to know if this is one near me to avoid like the plague.

[TinkerBellesMum]

The law does exist, but as it?s civil law it?s up to the mother to prove it. gemmamc as you have been told it?s policy, get it in writing and then either bluff them and say ?thanks, I?ll just take this to my solicitor now as it breaks the 1975(?) Sex Discrimination Act and I will be making a civil case? or go to a solicitor with it and get them to write to the nursery, also pass it on to OFSTED and your local paper! (OK, just caught up more and they?re saying that?s not policy, but it?s what I would have done at the start.)

To the people who say it?s a private place and they can do what they want, that?s not true. If it was any other sort of discrimination it wouldn?t be allowed, there is a law that protects mothers (just not a very adequate law) and it doesn?t matter where you are or who you are you can not break the law just because you own the building.

[skidaddle]

well done gemma, what a brave decision. I really hope you do decide to take this further because it is absolutely outrageous and none of the manager's reasons make any sense at all.

Best of luck wiht finding alternative childcare, I hope it is not too hard but you can feel very proud of yourself that you took a stand against something so important

[gemmamc]

Glad to hear you think I made the right decision. I am slightly panicky about it (I have soo much work to do - I run a small business from home and haven't yet told my clients and not even my business partner about the crisis).

I guess I better get on with calling CMs. I've called one so far and I know she's got a vacancy but no idea what she is like.

Will keep you posted. I will also seriously consider what to do about Ofsted, the NCT, etc... I will just give it slightly lower priority as first I've got to sort myself out then I can think of other women who may have the same problem later with this nursery...