Newborn really slow feeder for 2 weeks - having to express EVERY feed. Can't continue.

[springerspaniel]

My DD was a very slow feeder from birth. She lost close to her 10% and then didn't put on weight so MW suggested I expressed at the end of every feed to give it at the end of the next feed. This means that every three hours I:

• breast feed from both boobs (approx 15 mins each)
• throughout breast feed, I have to poke baby to stay sucking (tickle feet, blow on her, drip cold water on her, etc.)
• then whilst DH bottle feeds her EBM, I express

The whole process takes over an hour. We've been doing it for over a week and it is killing us. We are all exhausted - we apart from the baby!

We cannot continue. DH will be going back to work (he has extended his leave another week) and DS (age 3) will be around much more next week because his nursery hours are reduced.

She should be having total approx 25oz of milk a day and she has 12oz of EBM so she is getting a significant amount directly from me.

Does anyone else have experience of this?

I guess I'm hoping that someone is going to tell me that next week she will magically start sucking harder and won't need the EBM.

I have two solutions if not:

(1) SMA
(2) Keep baby on boob for even more time

I know I can use a sling, etc. but I think that, for me, my sanity and my family, I am not prepared to do option (2).

[springerspaniel]

I just used the Avent hand pump. My baby was 9lb10oz so good weight. It took about 2 days to pump my way to over production so be careful! I also have been blessed with a plentiful supply so always found it ok expressing. I did it at then end of every feed but had the huge benefit of DH on hand to take baby and DS1. Is really really hard.

LadyG - good luck. Is bloody hard with 3 year old. Poor thing is so bored. He is in nursery 1 full and 2 half days. Would go mental and kill each other otherwise.

PS after being so smug - DD1 screamed from 8-10pm last night. Serves me right!

[LadyG]

Just have to say well done springerspaniel am currently in velcro baby and 3 yr old hell plus 3week old DD is definitely refluxy colicky or something dont think I can face routine until September when 3 yr old back at nursery. Life is not fun atm but well done you for persevering

[JordTyler]

just wanted to say you arn't the only one that isn't prepared to have baby stuck to them all day, in fact i would also go bonkers if i had to do it.

my DS1 was a CLB (routine) on bottles and was a dream, so this BF and lack of routine is completly alien to me.

i also have a sleepy feeder who i think has latch problems, but i'm sticking with it as i don't think his Low BW helps as he is not yet 9 lb but is 10 weeks!!

Can i ask what pump you used and how long it took to get it right cos i can't seem to get the knack, and small amount i do get makes me fell worse.

if anyone else has any expressing advice that would be great. x

[NeuroMum]

Just read this thread for the first time SS.. and was going to post to give you some encouragement. Our DD was a really sleepy feeder, on 0.4th percentile too, so I was sooo neurotic about her feeding and got myself upset too many times to count. But as you've found, she has become a more effective feeder, and is creeping slowly up the charts too.. which makes me relax a bit (only a bit, I do tend to be a worrier about most stuff).

Anyway, reason for this post is to ask how you managed to get your LO down for a nap and at night without crying? Please share and let me know how long it took you!

[springerspaniel]

Aha - just wanted to provide an update for anyone who tried to give me advice or anyone in similar position.

Needless to say that my experience is by no means text book and what I did will not work for everyone so if you are to take one thing away from my experience, it is to go with your instincts, regardless of what people tell you.

After my last emotional post I continued expressing because I felt it was the right thing to do for our family. I wanted to give her breast milk but I was not prepared to do the sling thing. I had a velcro baby last time and it made me really miserable for a good three months until I put him on a (dare I say it) routine.

About a day or so after my last post, she suddenly wasn't interested in the bottle at the end of the feed. This continued and so did the mammoth poohs and wees so I knew she was getting enough. HV weigh in confirmed this.

Started to take about 45 minutes every three hours to feed her, which, regardless of what musmnetters said, was really getting me down. A couple of days ago, (she is 3 1/2 weeks) she started feeding faster. She is now about 20-30 minutes every 3 hours and goes about 6 hours and 4 hours at night. Phew.

It's funny how you solve one 'problem' and then you focus on the next one (maybe I am just a moaner) but then she started screaming on and off from about 5pm till 10pm. DS1 had horrendous colic and it only disappeared when he was plonked onto a routine so shoot me down in enormous flames but also two days ago, I gently prodded her towards a rigid routine.

Wow - I can now get her to nap without crying. She doesn't cry in the evenings either. In fact, she rarely cries.

I think I am just a bit crap at the baby thing and need a routine to help me read her cues.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the advice (even if I didn't follow it!) and to gloat slightly that I temporarily have my sanity back (but not for long, no doubt she'll have a growth spurt soon and send me all miserable again!)

[Tinkjon]

Sorry, haven't read all of thread. Also can't offer any practical advice I'm afraid, but just to say that I know how hard this is. I expressed every feed for DD for 2 months because she simply couldn't feed from me - and it is a killer. On top of all the time spent attempting to feed, you're up at least every 2 hours or so throughout the day and night, expressing then washing & sterilising the breastpump and storing the milk etc., so I can really empathise - sending you my best wishes and hope that you get through this.

[Onestonetogo]

Message withdrawn

[pudding25]

My dd is 12 wks tomorrow and she was the slowest feeder ever for the first 3/4 wks! it would take at least an hour for a feed. i would have to gradually strip her to try and wake her, blow on her, put her down and pick her up again, put water on her! All to make her get some food. It was exhausting. She just kept falling asleep the whole time. I think around 4 weeks, it started getting better. Now she stays awake while she feeds and feeds for around 10-25 mins per feed depending on how hungry she is. So it should definitely get better.
Also, she only fed around every 3 hrs too.
I can totally understand what you mean about not wanting to sit there all day feeding forever, especially when you have a little boy who needs your attention. Is there another adult who could come and help you out for a bit when your husband goes back to work? If not, I definitely think that DVDs are the way to go. DS can cuddle up to you on the couch while you are feeding and watch a dvd.
Maybe try a BF counsellor again. I went to a breastfeeding group at my local hospital and they were really nice and listened to me. My friend came with me and she was basically doing what you were doing by expressing and topping up and she was on the verge of a breakdown (she has 2 other kids too) and they told her not to express if it was too much and when she suggested the odd bottle of formula, they said that was fine and not to worry about it.
Good luck

[mears]

I hope that you are getting help somewhere springerspaniel - apologies again.

[Oblomov]

Oh dear.
OP is clearly very upset.
Come back Op. Mears is one of MN's guru's and she knows alot.
Cleary it is all abit too much for her right now.

[caribee]

springer, I am sorry if the cumulative effect of what everyone has said has made you feel criticised.

no one is on here giving advice because they want to criticise, it is one of the limitations of text over voice. hugs because many of us have also had difficult early days and are so do empathise with a mum who is feeling stressed out.

One of the things i am picking up in your posts is that you are still trusting the pump (and measuring in oz) and maybe a clock more than you are trusting your body. Maybe this is not the case and I hope not.

It is quite possible that your baby is already feeding more efficiently than we are crediting him with. It is time to look at your baby while he is actively feeding and look for how efficiently he is feeding intead of putting too much weight on the guidance of a MW, HV or MNers.

Maybe this video will come in helpful. Mears has already described it to NoddyD but this is excellent to watch. here. Look for "suck pause (meaning a swallow) suck" action which you can see in the jaw and throat, the temples wiggling and sometimes the ears wiggling too.

babies always start out with short fluttery sucks which stimulate the letdown before the drinking can commence.

the 2 day old baby feeding video and the 'really good drinking' video may help too.

[mears]

springerspaniel - I am sorry if I have upset you - that was not my intention. I am a midwife too and I think that expressing is so time consuming it puts a strain on you. Although your midwife will initially advised this, that doesn't mean you still need to do it. It should be a short term measure.

10% weight loss in a baby with a birth weight of 9lb 12oz is certainly not unexpected. It may well be that she was born larger than she was meant to be and has been demonstrating 'catch down growth' hence the reason for no initial weight gain. That is normal.

What I was trying to do was suggest an easier routine - I am really sorry that you took this as criticism. Expressing can overstimualte your supply in the early weeks and give you another set of problems.

You have said in your OP that you cannot continue this routine. I am trying to reassure you that there is no need to continue this routine IMO from what you have said.

You are doing your best and I know that conflicting advice is one of the worst aspects of breastfeeding. I would condider calling a helpline for information because not all health professionals have a good knowledge of breastfeeding.

[mears]

NobbyD - watch closely what your baby is doing at the breast. He may just be lying there doing nothing if it is for 3 hours - a feed should not last that long.

When he sucks he should also swallow. The first few sucks should be rapid as he latches on then they should be slower and deep with a swallow after each suck. At the end of the feed he may 'flutter suck' for a while which is fine and stinulated further milk production, but you could take him off there if he doesn't come off himself.

Ideally a baby will come off spontaneously when they have had enough. My first DS didn't though so I had to judge when he had had enough. If I didn't have anything pressing to do (like eat!), I would just leave him there. Babies love being at the breast for closeness and security - it is not all about milk. But you have to balance feeding time with your own needs too.

[springerspaniel]

Mears - no, as I said, I have not stopped expressing. I tried demand feeding and she lost too much weight.

She was 9 lb 12 oz at birth.

I am keeping in mind why breastmilk is good - why do you think I have spent so much time doing this? Why do you think I have got my husband too take three weeks off unpaid from work to help me?

Sorry, think I am going to leave this thread before I get even more upset. This is an unbelievably stressful time for me. I can't take any kind of criticism that I am not trying to do what is best for my baby.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

[springerspaniel]

...and thanks for link to hunger cues. I feed her as soon as she is hungry. I do not make her wait - she is ASLEEP before then so I am definitely not missing any cues.

[mears]

springerspaniel - have you sopped the expressing? I really hope so. Try and go with the flow of demand feeding - it may mean shorter frequent feeds but then you may also get longer spells. What weight was she at birth BTW?

She will pick up speed as she gets bigger. Keep in your mind why breastmilk is good. You are giving her so much more than just milk.

[springerspaniel]

...and to be clear, the first week before I started expressing, I was feeding her for much, much longer. She was simply too lethargic to maintain her weight. That is why I started expressing, under the advice of the MW.

[springerspaniel]

Oblomov - you are right about the hot thing. I always strip her off for a feed and usually nappy change halfway through.

The first week was extremely hot. The last few days have been cooler and that coincides with her feeding better.

DS was very similar. It was unbearably hot the July he was born and he was a dreadful feeder. Luckily he managed to gain weight so I never resorted to expressing.

I can't remember when he learned to suck more efficiently but I think it was in the first few weeks. He was always better when the weather was cooler. I used to watch the weather report every morning because it would dictate what a difficult day I would have!

[springerspaniel]

I am generally against shoving toddler in front of tv for long periods but, trust me, I am making full use of Ivor The Engine and CBeebies at the moment! There is a limit on how much DS will watch and it is not a lot. I do save it for feeding times so I get as much peace as possible.

Good to hear that other people have had similar problems and it has passed.

DH is taking an extra week off unpaid. Baby has improved in week two so hopefully the extra week will be enough to improve again.

Thanks for all the advice.

[moondog]

Nobby, you are doing fine. It is normal really.
He sleeps after formula because it is like wallpaper paste in his tiny tummy the size of a wallnut. You'd probably sleep too if someone slid a gallon of something similar down your gullet. It may also interfere with your supply.

[NobbyD]

I think I may have the same problem!

My ds will be three weeks tomorrow and he is a VERY slow feeder. I have just spent the last 3 hours feeding him from the breast and he still doesn't seem content. I have had to put him down as I need a break and am hoping he will fall asleep for a bit.

Is this really normal? He will feed well for about 10mins and then fall asleep but as soon as I put him down he cries for more. This goes on for hours. I am pretty sure he is latched on OK and is getting my milk - I also squeeze the boob each time he falls off to check there still is some in there - there always is.

Whilst I don't mind spending this amount of time during the day (although it does feel like I feed him ALL day), it is the night times that get to me. I end up shusshing him to sleep just so I can get some shut eye - but then he wakes within the hour for more.

Many of you have said that it is normal for a newborn to take their time feeding, but I'm just concerned that 3 hours is excessive!

He has been weighed once and has regained his birth weight plus an extra ounce. I'll be weighing him again next week.

I have also now tried giving him a formular feed as his last feed of evening (at about 11pm) and he gulps his down and falls asleep straight away after. Does this mean that it could be the way I am feeding him from the breast?

Sorry to butt in on someone elses thread, but it sounded like a similar problem that I wanted to share.

Thanks for any advice. Must go - ds will not sleep and wants more feeding!

[TettyLouBar]

My dd is 7 weeks. BFing well. takes over an hour for each feed. first stint she goes for around 15-20 mins, then she pulls herself off completely wiped out and snoozes for 5 mins, I wind her and then put her back on because she is always still hungry. if shes sleepy after first stint, i change her nappy (or sometimes pretend to just to wake her up a bit) and then continue.
its part of our routine now.
Breastfeeding does take time, but enjoy the time with her and make it special!
good luck!

[Oblomov]

God, yes, hrs and hrs of tv and dvds are the answer . No seriously, I believe they are. Not every day for the next 3 years, but right now, they are a godsend.

[Oblomov]

Yes, a trying 3 yr old, whose nursery has just stopped, doesn't help.
You are probably too tired to take him 'out for the day'.
You need support. What to suggest ?????
What wouyld your ds like ? Is something possible ?

[LadyG]

Yes my DS now 3 and DD 1 week old is alas proving the same. It is very frustrating and difficult with the two of them and luckily I have a lot of help with my mum close by who takes DS to the park to wear him out a bit. From memory DS speeded up at about 6 weeks and by 4 months all was plain sailing. I have felt exactly what you're feeling but am sticking with it just because I know the pay off comes later. So far CBeebies DVDs and trips to cafe to bribe DS with cake while I get a feed in are my tips.
As for expressing the breast pump is by my bed but I can't even be bothered to plug it in so I think you and your DH are doing really well-whatever you decide will Im sure be the right decision for you and your family.