Really want to hold off solids till 6 months

[dinny]

if I can. but ds (4 months) is VERY interested in food/grabbing our food. want to excl bf him and start solids at 6 months. how do I make sure he's getting enough to eat? he's 18 weeks, 19 lbs and feeds every 2-3 hours day and night (we're all v happy thus far too). thanks for any advice.

[mears]

Yes you are right moondog

[dinosaur]

So I don't have to worry too much about slower weight gain mears?

[mears]

ps My HV wasn't supportive at all. She wanted ne to start solids - I said no

I was told DD would not accept a spoon - she did easily. Her speech might be affected - it definately wasn't!

Although it wasn't out as guidance, I knew about excusive breastfeeding being ideal 11 years ago. It is only in the last year or so the guidance is there. In my day HV probably could be excused for pressing me to start solids, but that is not the case now. Weight gain alone has nothing to do with whether you start solids or not TBH.

[mears]

Absolutly not dinosaur - did last post before seeing yours there.

[dinosaur]

Last question - any advantage to introducing mixed feeding - that is, giving him formula some of the time?

[moondog]

Mears, I heard that although the benefits of b/feeding exclusively until 6 months have been known and accepted by the powers that be for a long time,it only became official advice when maternity leave was extended, otherwise the govt. would have looked hypocritical-advocating one thing, yet not allowing women to stay off work with pay in order for it to happen!

[mears]

You are right there moondog, but the dietetic guidance for HV's remained the same when it should have changed a long time ago. That should not have been influenced by politics. Thankfully, the 'official' guidance was finally put out with extended mat leave.
Baby food companies will also need to fall in line too.

[zebra]

Any advantage to mixed feeding in which way, Dinosaur?
I often think combi-feeding makes a lot of sense, depending how you do it you can get minimal disadvantage to the infant & a lot of convenience to the mother... but I don't know what you mean. If it's iron stores in the infant... I get the impression from the literature I've read that formula offers no advantages, because the iron in breastmilk is so much more bio-available.

[aloha]

I think some people wouldn't be happy unless you were feeding foetuses porridge in utero. "Ooh, he can't be happy just feeding through his umbelical cord...how about a bit of a rusk?"

[moondog]

Lol aloha!!! How true!!!
Remember wanting to slap mil (in truth a lovley lady) who said to me brightly when I was b/feeding dd at about 8 days old
'Has the m/w talked to you about topping up with a bottle?'
I really think people deep down can't bear the idea that you are doing something that ONLY you can do.They want to spoil it for some weird reason-barge in on that lovely exclusive relationship....

[busyalexsmummy]

I think its great your trying to hold off till 6 months, but on the other side of things I also think that you need to be very receptive to what your LO wants, how would your feel sitting staring at a plate of choc/cake/ice cream or whatever and not being allowed to touch or try.
Research shows that the most receptive time for babies taste is between 4-6 months, they are open to many different txtures and tastes at this time.
I had a friend who b/f and held off weaning till 7 1/2 months, she had difficulties getting her dd to eat anything other than baby rice!
well done for getting this far, but also, dont feel guilty if you try him with a little solids- at the end of the day, they are on such a small amount at this stage, it is not going to amke any difference to your b/feeds. xx

[aloha]

Yes, but just because you may want something doesn't mean it is always a good idea to have it. Whether that applies to having several glasses of wine too many or giving, say, a diabetic endless chocolate just because they show an interest in it. There is lots of research to show that a baby of four months does not have a mature gut, and giving solids to a baby with an immature gut can increase their chances of allergies etc. I did wean my son at around the four month mark, and it was, I'm afraid, mainly due to endless bloomin' pressure from the likes of the MIL. With my baby due in three weeks, I will be weaning later, in accordance with the best health research.

[Clayhead]

sorry, not had time to read the whole thread but just to say my experience was pretty much as aloha's; gave in first time round with dd, waited until 6 months with ds and, for me, the way I did it with ds was better. I wish I had waited with dd now but you live and learn (well, learn enough to ignore everyone else second time round!)

By waiting until 6 months with ds I also managed to skip the puree stage and start him on mash and finger foods; I'm always a fan of something which panders to my lazy streak...

I also ignored my HV's advice on iron supplements for bf babies, no need imho.

[aloha]

Ooh, yes, really fancy skipping the mush/babyrice stage and moving straight onto toast fingers!

[tiktok]

You are right, busyalex, that people ought to react to their baby's needs as individuals, but the stuff about receptiveness to taste being there at 4-6 months is misunderstood, sorry....yes, there is research to show this, but the study (if its the one I am thinking of) was comparing babies who started solids at 4-6 months with those who started earlier than this . Other studies of babies who started solids at 6 mths show no difficulty with accepting tastes.

[poppy101]

I was told that if a baby weight slows down and that baby starts waking in the night suddenly with hunger and the baby is after 4 months in age, then it could be a good idea to start on baby rice. Don't rush into solids, however, at the end of the day it is your baby and you know your baby better than anybody else. Not all babies are the same and develop at their own pace.

[NotQuiteCockney]

Breastfed babies already get varied tastes - breastmilk tastes of your diet. So I'm sure 4-6 month old bf babies are already getting a nice range of tastes.

[WellieMum]

Help! I'm racking my brains here!

Rather than clock watching, I'd like to start dd on solids when she's ready, whenever that happens to be. Hopefully it will be at or after 6 months as we're an allergy-ridden family - but I don't want to be dogmatic about this if dd is truly ready earlier.

Sooooo.... how will I know when she is ready to be weaned? It seems to me that the traditional signs have now been disproved. eg:

1. chewing on hands, putting things in mouth - no, it's not hunger, just a developmental stage
   
2. slow weight gain, small baby - no, it's far better to bfeed as breast milk is better nutritionally
   
3. rapid weight gain, big baby - ditto
   
4. waking in the night - not necessarily a reason, as you can just increase bfeeding to boost supply, and anyway weaning may not help them sleep through
   
5. interest in food - no, this could just be general curiosity
   
6. health visitor/clinic nurse/relatives comments - no, stick fingers in ears and go "la la la" as they are not up to date with current research
   
   
   So what is it then??? (scratching head emoticon)

[Cardigan]

WM - could give ds some babyfood & see if he swallows it rather than pushing it out of his mouth. Everybaby is different & if some mums need to bf exclusively for first 6 months, as recommended by who, unicef etc, then they need to bf on demand day & night.

[SamN]

WellieMum, I've found the kellymom.com site very useful on this, especially when trying to stick to my guns despite hv, gp, dp(just like yours, Flossam) trying to convince me otherwise. Interestingly, they mention sitting up as one of the markers and ds2 has only just started to sit up on his own for any length of time.

I'm in a similar position to that reported by others, namely that I weaned ds1 'early' at 4 1/2 months - which was then considered 'late', but he now has food sensitivities and I wish I hadn't started so early. So I was determined not to with ds2. He's just over 6 months and had his first taste of mango puree mixed with bm today. (pidge, if you're reading, I tried quinoa first but this wasn't approved of! I'm now waiting for my Susannah Olivier book to arrive from Amazon.)

I think it's shocking that the advice and evidence for waiting until 6 months has been around for a while but that our health visitors keep telling people the wrong stuff. Ds2 has reflux and dropped through the percentiles from about 3 months and the people at the surgery kept telling me it wouldn't hurt to give him some baby rice. Sorry, but everything I've read implies that it might harm him and I didn't want to take the risk. It's hard to stay firm when all the people you know in RL disagree with you, however.

also, tbh our health visitors don't seem very experienced in supporting breastfeeding at all. They even have a 'baby cafe' in the clinic but the way it was represented in post-natal classes was more to do with helping other mums who wanted to wean their babies off the breast than supporting mums who were carrying on.

must be in a ranting mood tonight. probably time to sleep before ds2 wakes up again...

[zebra]

Welliemum...this is what I'm tending to think, which may be rubbish...
Imagine that we didn't spoonfeed babies, didn't care what they ate, how much mess they made. We also let them grab and try to eat anything they liked. Most babies (full-term at birth) would start to get moderately successful at grabbing things (anything including non-food items) & shoving them in their mouths at around 5 months (20-24). Most would just mouth something & spit it out (more like choke on it then drool it out) to start. Which is fine... the grabbing & mouthing is, to my mind, the start of them learning how to eat. Mouthing things is curiousity, but it also is how they start to learn how to eat & what to eat.

But... it's like walking or talking... some babies are much quicker at it than others. It may takes months or it make take days.

But instead, the way we do it is so contrived; we puree things down to make them easier to swallow, put them into highchairs & beam approval if they eat loads. Or get frustrated if they don't swallow anything...We don't want to "waste our time" trying if they aren't keen, but we don't want to "push them" if they aren't ready; the whole thing is artificial. On top of that, we get anxious about them moving to the next developmental stage, or comparing with other babies...

With all of mine I meant to wait until 6 months but something undermined me each time. Whether I'm pathetic or being sensible I really don't know. Current baby it was when he cut teeth at 20 weeks & rather than chew on my fingers I thought an apple core might be more suitable... But I'm glad I held off mostly -- just occasional (like 1-2x/week) tastes until he was 6 months... Except when he was about 22 weeks I gave him a pizza cruist one night & BOY was he keen. As soon as we hit 6 months we leapt in to 3 meals/day pretty fast...and like his sister before him he'd rather 'eat' than breastfeed now so he's not getting as much milk as I'd like, that's one reason why I am glad I mostly held off until 6 months.

Something else upsetting me. There are typical early baby foods which do have more calories than breastmilk per 100g... starting to be dangerous myths otherwise. On a breastfeeding list I read recently a woman saying that her 9 month old was falling off the bottom percentiles but she didn't want to start solids because they all have too few calories compared to breastmilk, thankfully the list members tactfully suggested maybe she should give solids a try. Baby Rice, avocado, any vegetable oil (including olive), live full-fat or Greek yogurt, porridge, those are ones that come to mind that are more calorie-dense than breastmilk. I think banana is nearly the same, too.

[WellieMum]

Wow, lots to think about here.

Zebra, I'm really interested in your point about weaning being very contrived. What you're describing is (if I've got the right end of the stick) a much more gradual, baby-led process. I like that idea a lot.

I agree about the calorie content thing, though surely most people would know that the point isn't about calorie content as such, rather overall nutritional value. I think the WHO guidelines make the point explicitly somewhere about breast milk being nutritionally complete, so other foods would only have a displacing effect. At least that's true for young babies, but that mother of the 9 month old you mention sounds a bit extreme!

That kellymom site is really interesting, thanks SamN! I notice the list of cues for weaning suggests a fairly advanced level of co-ordination, eg sitting without support, pincer grasp, chewing, etc.

Thinking about it, it does make sense to me that if babies can eat a particular food by themselves (reach for it, chew it, swallow it), then they're probably developmentally ready for it (as opposed to having the food pureed and then spooned in by anxious mum reading a timetable from a book). Sort of what Cardigan is suggesting too, I think.

It also seems to make sense that if they are helping themselves, they'll only be taking in tiny amounts at first, and maybe that would give the gut time to adapt and mature. Don't know how you'd prove that though.

OK, going to stop blathering now.....

[Prufrock]

I waited until ds was6 months (well apart from one taste of babyrice at 23 weeks when I thought he was getting desperate - he hated it so I waited) It was good that we had only a week or so of pureed food to get him used to the concept, then he refused purees and started eating just our food mashed up, or finger food. There was a link recentlyto research on baby led weaning - AFAICR they just put lots of bits of food in front of a baby and let them help themselves when they were ready - for those first few weeks solids are simply a learning and tasting experience rather than a milk substitute so there isn't really any pressure to get a certain amount of food into your child.

I do disagree with your comment about bf on demand day and night if you want to do 6 months of exclusive bf though cardigan. DS was on scheduled breast feeds from day 1, and stuck to them apart from a few growth spurts, none of which lasted longer than 1 week and only necessitated one extra bf a night.

[hercules]

my hv was very shocked to hear that at 5 1/2 months dd had had no solids. She had never heard of the WHO or gov recommendations .

I was told by a bf counsellor to think of it in terms of when the baby would naturally be ready ie sitting up, no choking reflex with the tongue etc. She said that cave people wouldnt have faffed around with purees!

DD was a large baby and has considerably dropped down the centiles. Idont get her weighed as I know it makes the hvs concerned but she is simply petite. She hardly sleeps and has stacks of energy plus eats well.

[biglips]

my baba is 3 months and im thinking of giving her abit of Rusk to fill her up just a little bit more as she is on white sma aswell and she got a big appetite.