Breastfeeding just won't work

[SisterA]

I'm so sorry this is an essay but just wondered if anyone had any similar experiences.

My baby will be 4 weeks old on Monday. I have been trying, relentlessly, to breastfeed. It's something I have always wanted to do and we just can't get it to work. My baby is doing very well. She is gaining weight exceptionally well. Despite being 9.5% down when we left hospital on day 3, she was well past her birth weight by the time she was 2 weeks old. So from that aspect things are good and it's encouraging. But I have struggled from the outset.

I've reached out for help from every avenue possible and at 3 days she had a tongue tie snipped. We have been to breastfeeding groups (though only once before they all closed for the holidays). We've seen a chiropractor who thought that she had some alignment issues after a forceps delivery and I've not been afraid to call for breastfeeding support from health visitors/midwives and make sure that I don't get to a point of despair. I don't yet dread breastfeeding but I've had some pretty low points. The tongue tie was horrible, then I had severely cracked nipples which are almost healing but physically feeding is still so painful I can't tell if the latch is good or if the pain is due to the crack? Some health visitors thought I maybe had thrush but the doctor wasn't convinced so I'm currently trying to feed through the pain.

Along with the above I feel like she latches better on one side that she does the other and won't stay on longer than maybe 5-10 minutes before fighting at my boob and taking herself off. By this point she's too sleepy to go back on/for me to put her in the other side. But not sleepy enough to settle to go to sleep. I feel like my supply is excellent - I can always hand express after a feed or pumping session no matter how long we go for but I'm still plagued by blocked ducts which I think are worse than the pain of feeding.

I just feel like I'm at a loss and I was so determined to make use of every resource yet it still just isn't the joyous experience I was hoping for. 4 weeks and my nipple still hasn't fully healed and I still feel like my baby isn't really satisfied after a feed and I live in fear for the next weigh in because maybe things have stopped working.

Does anyone have any words wisdom? Any tips? I watched endless videos and can't see where we go wrong and neither can all these health professionals. Sometimes I think a feed is going well and it's not overly painful but my nipple comes out so misshapen and I desperately don't want to damage them so much again that I can't feed as we already dropped to one side for an entire week.

SOS!

[MummEE2]

Do you put on nipple cream for nipples? I found it helped me immensely through the early weeks of BF. I was literally putting cream on them all the time Day and night. By week 8 it got easier for me

[SisterA]

Hi @BertieBotts. Pain still exists but I think I'm getting more used to it. I'm just ways so worried about further cracks to my nipples and feel terrible when I have to unlatch as I adore the look of satisfaction post feed. But I can't always let that happen. But yes, here's hoping things keep progressing! I'm not feeling so down in the dumps anymore :)

[BertieBotts]

Thank you for the update! It sounds like that lactation consultant knows her stuff. Fingers crossed the tongue tie division will help. Are you getting any less pain with feeding now?

[SisterA]

Just wanted to provide an update. Not that I know if anyone wants one but wanted to say thanks to everyone who has provided advice and support. It's not a full update but it's something. We saw yet another lactation consultant today. She really listened to me and, for the first time since hospital, someone actually put their hands in her mouth, and is confident there is still a tongue tie restriction there.

Having it cut may not make a difference but I feel relieved for there to still be a tangible reason for pain. We aren't doing anything wrong and there is still so much hope for us yet! Weight gain still excellent and we can be seen privately in a little over a week so continuing to persevere until then, and reassess then. I'm all sorts of emotional!

[SisterA]

I've tried the haaka but struggle getting it on and her at the same time without feeling pretty clumsy. I just feel like I'm running out because I haven't been feeding enough. But. Will keep doing my best until either she isn't thriving or the well runs dry! Blocked ducts definitely less regular and boobs generally always soft though definitely still milk there.

Still in the running and appreciate all the advice and support from this thread!

[SnuggyBuggy]

I'm glad things seem to be better OP. Getting a haakaa for the "bad" boob sounds like a good idea.

I thought I was the only one who had a preferred day and night boob.

[FiresideTreats]

Latch herself, obviously!

[FiresideTreats]

Yes to what Bertie said! It's much easier having your right hand free by feeding on the left side if you're right-handed!

5-10 mins sounds great - especially if she is sucking the whole time. You will have good days and bad, then one day you'll aim her in the general direction of your boob and she will latch yourself before you even notice!

As Bertie said, I would continue to pump/express to avoid blocked ducts or worse. Have you tried a haakaa suction pump? I used to get about 2oz from the 'bad' side while feeding from the good - you don't need to do anything, it just gently uses the vacuum to help draw the milk at letdown. It was easier and faster for me than hand expressing.

[BertieBotts]

If you're right handed it suits to have a better supply on the left than the right anyway - I can do things with my right hand when I'm feeding! I tend to feed more off the left in the day and more off the right at night.

[BertieBotts]

Yes you can build supply back up. You do want to express enough you're not getting bunged up on that side though, as mastitis is the last thing you want now.

You're seeing improvement which is really really great and there's no reason it won't continue to get better. Doing any feeding on that side is good, I wouldn't worry about equalising time spent on both.

La Leche League three tips when you can't bear to feed:

Keep the baby close
Keep the baby fed
Keep the milk flowing.

All should work out in time especially with good support.

[SisterA]

Thanks @FiresideTreats. I do think my supply is pretty good - no matter how long she feeds/I pump for I can still always hand express some more after even once she's taken herself off. With regards to how long she will feed for on the bad side it can vary anything from 5 minutes to 10 minutes before I get to a point where I really can't take it anymore.

I considered seeing if I had enough supply to get to a point of feeding just off one side and expressing sore side for storage. I wouldn't mind being lopsided if she was getting enough! But I am still trying to always offer the other side but it's just wearing me down a bit. Sometimes we feel sooooo close and other times couldn't feel farther.

[FiresideTreats]

It sounds like you're doing amazingly. How long will she feed on the bad side before you have to unlatch? Would it be painful for you to pump?

I wasn't in the exact same situation you are, but my DS couldn't/wouldn't latch on my right side for weeks and weeks. It became such a battle during the night that eventually I just did night feeds on the good side until he mastered the bad side as well. While feeding I used a haakaa to catch the letdown on the bad side and then pumped with a manual pump for 5 ish mins til the bad side felt soft. I never had a supply issue that I know of but like you I feared I would, hence the pumping. I know nighttime feeds are crucial for your supply in the early weeks. I perhaps actually pumped too much as I did have oversupply for a short time but that settled down after about 3-5 days once he was reliably feeding from both sides.

You are 4+ weeks in so your supply is hopefully getting in good shape to be established - I hope someone with a bit more technical BF knowledge can come along with some more definite info.

[SisterA]

Hi everyone. I don't want to jinx anything but I think we might have it down on the good side. At least I have hope.

My problem is still with the other side it's just soooo painful still but it's maybe just going to continue being painful until it's fully healed? My worry is supply in that side. I can never let her stay on until she takes herself off and have to unlatch beforehand. But one side is better than none right?! Do you think these short bursts will be enough to keep up supply? Should I be pumping in between feeds when I have to unlatch early? I know she has a preference for the left - probably because I'm a bit more adept and more relaxed but can get a reasonable latch much easier on that side.

I don't have the fear to start feeding on my right but I am beginning to look a bit lopsided & after all this work don't want supply to become an issue. Anyone got any tips? Will it be possible to build supply back up?

[BinaryStar]

Bravo for all the effort you’re putting in OP. I know it I tough but hopefully all your perseverance will pay off very soon

[CottonSock]

I'll just add that both my dds were fussy feeding..my first had reflux..second I think just a breast preference. I used to offer her the other one first. It took quite a while for her to even out, probably months.

[Babyangelfairy]

Hi there,
I haven’t read everyone’s replies so I could be repeating someone.
My LO also has a tongue tie and it was only snipped at almost seven weeks due to constant feeding.
I too suffered with painful nipples at the beginning, I saw a BF counsellor who advised a poor latch and recommended the koala hold. However, I’ve found that side feeding bubs has a deeper latch and feeds longer. He too feeds for minutes at a time before tiring, it’s because a tongue tie baby can’t get the deep latch as a regular baby due to the lack of flexibility of the tongue so often use their lips to feed and suck the nipple instead of getting some areola in there too.
This could be why you’re sore and mishapen. I agree lanolin is awesome.
Where as I’m past the pain aspect now, we still have latch issues so I side lay at home to feed as much as possible. We still have reflux to contend with- LO fights at my breast.
Ironically I’ve just posted looking for any help as he still feeds every 30mins and won’t take a bottle, HV isn’t concerned as he’s gained lots of weight (over a pound a week!) and BF counsellor is on leave until the new year.
I’m looking into cranial osteopathy now as I read a tongue tie baby can sometimes have muscle tension in their jaw, worth a shot right???
Hang in there you’re doing awesom xx

[SisterA]

Yeah, and I wasn't expecting it to be easy by any means but I didn't think it would be THIS hard. However I've surprised myself as when we started I really didn't think we'd make it to 4 weeks feeling like this.

I called out a midwife today and she came to provide some more advice and luckily the Lactation consultant coming on Monday could not come with any more praise so I'm hoping she'll be able to provide some good advice. I do think we are close to getting there and I'm being wary not to let any more damage happen so we spend a lot of time unlatching. Midwife also didn't think there was any sign of thrush or any problem with tongue tie. She is pretty confident the issue is positioning and attachment. Especially since things are significantly better on one side.

Committed to this and learning so so so much. We make progress I feel everyday and I'm just trying to remain positive!

[ButterflyWitch]

but OP bf is really hard! and I think we've lost a lot of knowledge as less and less bf. Also, some have very easy experiences and others have lots of issues.
It's very hard to swab and get a result for thrush (and can take about a week, by which point any underlying thrush would have gotten worse) - I'd go on the assumption that it's highly likely and ask for treatment. Do you have an out of hours service you could visit tonight to start treatment? Worst case scenario it's not thrush but then you can rule it out in a few days if you see no improvement.
Bf can be painful - especially to begin with - but your level of pain at 4 weeks in indicates something underlying that needs to be treated.

[SisterA]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I absolutely will try anything and everything. I've tried every position but I still try them all again when things aren't going right. We've tried lying down, biological nurturing, rugby ball... I've tried nipple shields but really couldn't get on with them - baby just felt as if she was on the base of my nipple which felt worse, though the infant feeding person may be able to help my with that. I've tried flipple and I've squashed my breast down. I've given it breaks and expressed.

But. I'm going to keep trying with all these suggestions and have them reassess the tongue tie. I'll go back to the GP and ask them to swab me to test for infection. I know it's possible. My body was designed to do this and my baby needs to be fed so I'm sure we will get there in the end it's just so hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when you feel like you've truly explored every option. I was so sure of myself before starting that I'd reach out wherever I could and it's so hard that I've stayed true to that and we still can't get it right.

[scrivette]

Some good advice above, also, you said that feeding was becoming more painful longer into the feed, it may be that the latch is slipping as the baby gets tired. Could you try to unlatch (using your little finger) and relatch?

[BertieBotts]

Oh yes re positioning, Biological Nurturing can help with this (though it didn't with my DS2 who just never ever got it and used to get really frustrated when I tried!)

[BertieBotts]

Bless you, you have had a really tough time.

It's good you have a specialist coming out. If she can't help, there are other avenues you can explore. It sounds to me like the latch is still not right if you're having the pain increase during the feed. Would it be worth trying nipple shields? These can sometimes make a good latch bad but if you're already getting pain and misshapen nipples, they are probably a good interim step. They might help as your LO grows as well, and you can wean off them later if they are annoying. I would also recommend you hand express/pump after feeding to prevent blocked ducts. You could also cup or bottle feed some of this milk if you are concerned about LO being too sleepy to feed effectively. BF can be exhausting for them at first if there is anything slightly out of whack with the situation as a whole.

You want somebody to check whether the tongue tie has not reattached, also whether there is any other attachment e.g. posterior tie, lip tie.

Maybe keep a keen eye for any thrush signs as this could be making things worse, but with the misshapen nipple I think something isn't quite right here.

Have you tried the move where you squash the boob into a sort of oval shape which makes it easier to latch? Are you bringing the baby to you rather than the boob to the baby? Use a feeding pillow, or stack of bed pillows, if you need help with holding them up.

It sounds like something which will get better rather than worse, but I don't think this is an issue which will resolve on its own so you might need to keep pushing for more help.

If your IFS HV is no good, try the BF support groups again once they re-open, that would be a good next step.

Good luck! And keep us updated with how it's going.

[BinaryStar]

Flipple
themilkmeg.com/get-better-latch-exaggerated-latch-flipple-breastfeeding-technique/

(Sorry for the long links!)

[FlyingwithBaby]

Oh you poor thing, it is painful to start with and your are doing a wonderful job!
Something that helped me so much were “Breast Angel” silverette nipple cups... they have healed my very painful nipples so many times! Just wear them in between feeds.
La Leche League have a helpline which you can call for advice and they are wonderful... open during the hols. Get yourself along to your nearest La Leche League meeting in the new year too as they will provide you with excellent suppprt and help, even after you overcome these early problems.
Good luck and keep going because it is so very worth it 😊

[BinaryStar]

Medela nipple shields
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001M0VW86/ref=asc_df_B001M0VW8657736900/?hvlocphy=9044958&linkCode=df0&psc=1&hvnetw=g&hvadid=309759544992&creative=22110&creativeASIN=B001M0VW86&th=1&hvpos=1o1&hvdev=m&hvtargid=pla-343815718529&hvrand=4216792609870643155&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21