Why don't my big ebf babies thrive?!

[YouMaySayImADreamer]

I am ebf my second ds. BF my first DS who is now 2.5 to 14mo and now ebf my 5mo. DS1 was 9lb 13oz at birth, and DS2 was 9lb 2oz but 1.5 week before edd so probably wouldve weighed the same. Both born on 75th centile.

I have taken time to educate myself on the ins and outs of bf on demand and have always been very baby led. I have always gone with the flow of cluster feeding and night feeds (which DS2 does a lot). I feed to sleep and DS2 doesn't have a dummy (DS1 did) so I offer a feed at every whimper practically.

However DS1 stopped gaining weight for 2 months from 3-5 months and then it was a slog to get him to even gain a few ounces before he started solids at 6mo. DS2 hasnt been quite as bad, he has always gained but has slowly dropped two centiles since birth and is now on 25th centile. He has gained 7.5ounces only in the past 19 days.

I was so disappointed getting him weighed today. I am exhausted from not having more than 2 hours sleep in a row in 5 months and not having a break and I feel that it isnt even paying off.

I honestly think ny breasts just must be crap! I never got engorged or felt my milk noticably come in either time, never leaked, and only one of my breasts becomes engorged if I miss a feed (which is worrying).

I have these lovely big healthy babies and I cant sustain them. I have taken every bit of advice for successful bf and feel a bit angry and frustrated that my babies don't thrive. I wonder how much more effort I have to put in to make it work. I could express between feeds, I could spend hours trying to get a perfect latch, I could spend lots of time trying to get ds to stay on the breast longer...but I am already spending way more time and headspace on feeding than if I was bottle feeding. I just want to enjoy my baby for once. I also have a toddler I want to enjoy time with.

Is there something obvious I am missing and doing wrong?? I desperately want to make bf work well and I want to feed well into toddlerhood, rather than limping to a halt like I did last time...

[McBaby]

I think it has a lot to do with birth weight and catching up of down. I have had one of each.

Dd1 was 8lb14oz so well over 90th percentile by 4 months she was 50th percentile and has hovered around there till she is now nearly 3. She is v tall and has always been 98th centile for height and is v lean.

Dd2 was 7lb2oz and 50th centile she pulled on the weight and if up to 90th centile at 14 months. She is taller than her sister but has a much bigger build.

Same boobs, same milk just different babies.

As long as babies are happy healthy alert etc I think it's all good.

[cumsanctuspiritu]

Hello. All 3 of mine were big babies (over 9 lbs at birth) and took till 4-5 months to reach 10 lb! Weighed 16-18lbs at a year. The last had a minor heart condition, and the paediatrician commented (without concern) that I probably had lower fat milk. This made much more sense than any explanation I had had before! As they needed frequent feeding. And my expressed milk was thinner than my friend's. Anyway, we learnt not to have them weighed after considerable anxiety with the first, and less with the 2nd. 3rd only weighed at birth, a week, 6 weeks, 5 months, a year. Each weighing caused me so much anxiety afterwards, that it didn't do the feeding any good.
My wise first HV said that weight is only one indicator of health, and if all others are good (my babies thrived and made all usual developmental milestones timely) then it's not a reason to worry, and they never actually lost weight.

Somehow, none of the literature I looked at mentioned milk fat content, and yet cows are known to vary (they pts low fat dairy cows, so I consider myself lucky!).

FWIW I fed all mine to 15-20 months, even while pregnant with the last (though the baby would break off for some water towards the end of the pregnancy, producing colostrum by then I think!), and tandem fed for 3 months.

[drinkscabinet]

Sorry, just read what you said about one boob being crap. I had horrendous mastitis in my right boob when DD1 was small and I think it affected my supply for years (all the Bfing experts denied it could happen) because all three DC preferred the left boob. In fact it was only when DC3 was a toddler and still preferred my left boob to the extent I was getting lopsided that I started starting all feeds on the right boob. My boobs are now even again but it took a while.

[westcountrywoman]

Is your DS happy, or miserable and always hungry? If the former please stop worrying. I personally feel there is too much pressure on mums for their babies to follow growth charts. If they're content and alert, they're doing fine.
DD dropped through the percentiles a lot in her first 6 months. She was 7lb12oz born (at 42 weeks) but by 6 months was between the 2nd and 9th percentile. She was happy, slept through the night (7-7) from 14 weeks and was an alert, bright baby. When she started solids, she was a good eater from the start but still didn't pile the pounds on.

[drinkscabinet]

DD1 was on the big end of average when she was born (75 percentile), but then put on very little weight between 2 and 4 months (dropped to 2nd percentile), before starting to gain weight again (she was EBF to 6 months) and is a spectacularly tiny and skinny child now as a 7 year old. Birthweight is no indication of how big a child will be when they get older, for DD1 her low point as a baby at 2nd percentile is far closer to how she will end up than her birth weight. The lovely BFing told me one look at DD1's Dad was enough to convince her there were no concerns about her weight (he's short and skinny and can't sit still). She was always (far too) alert and active, and is still a ball of energy.

Trust your body, and your babies. They won't let you starve them and if you are feeding on demand you are doing the best thing for them.

[YouMaySayImADreamer]

booksnark thank you so much, I no longer feel like I am going mad, and that I could be right that my boobs are just crap, im glad I am not alone in my experiences!

My left boob is also crap, it only gets engorged if I miss a few feeds. I also wondered about getting it checked but noone seems to care when I mention it and I think it is quite common.

I identify with a lot of what you say. My DC have also been constantly boob attached, particularly at night, way beyond the newborn period.

MrsCaptain I was worried that weaning interferes further as it was a battle to maintain a decent supply following weaning and my DS1 stopped feeding at 14mo by himself because there was simply nothing left. I think he mustve been dry nursing for a while because I didn't even get engorged when he stopped. It does make me sad that I don't think I achieve my goal to carry on longer.

[MrsCaptainReynolds]

Feeding into toddlerhood is something that I'll never achieve

Nor me. While block feeding has been the solution to improving the quality of my milk, weaning interferes with that and I've come to the conclusion that it's best just to stop then.

[BookSnark]

I haven't RTFT - but my experience is very similar to yours (just 4 times over ).

They all followed the same pattern of weight gain slowing right down whatever I did. I at one point even asked GP for a referral to check my left boob - because baby after baby it barely lactated. (Doc said it was just one of those things - sometimes breast tissue can be underdeveloped ).

With having 4 DC, I've had the benefit of trying slight variations on my approach. In summary - my boobs are indeed a bit crap - but my DC do substantially better being slightly underfed than they do with formula. I deduce there is some manner of CMPI in the family - not severe enough to need ongoing medical attention - but material enough to make the choice (for me) skinny permanently boob attached non-sleeping but healthy baby or fat grumpy and spotty (and still non sleeping) baby.

I've another baby on the way - and (for better for worse) my strategy will be to:

• accept the constant feeding thing. Deal with any 'bad habits' when the DC is securely on solids
  
• after first 6 weeks, abscond from the HV and their red-chart tyranny and acquire my own infant scales & keep my own records (weighed naked, same time of day etc etc)
  
• baby-wear and feed on the go to stop this dominating my other DCs life
  
• bring in herbs and breast compressions and such when the weight gain plateaus.
  
• Wean onto solids pre-6 months if needed
  
• be kind to myself
  

Feeding into toddlerhood is something that I'll never achieve - but I hope to maintain my improving record of overall health and wellbeing in my babies.

[YouMaySayImADreamer]

Sorry I am just catching up on new messages and sorry if I don't address everyone individually but am grateful for everyone's input and will try to pick up on all points...

DS2 is very alert and increasingly active. He is currently showing early signs of wanting to crawl and loves rolling. He looks in proportion head to body wise but is obviously quite long and lean.

crazy really sorry to hear about your DD, that mustve been so scary, I really hope she is fit and healthy now. You make a good point too - thanks.

MrsCaptain sorry to hear youve had the same experience, and glad you got some good advice - I think I will try to speak to someone from one of the helplines. l'm glad someone else knows what im talking about! I have known other people with the same problems and I feel like there is such a strong denial that there could possibly be anything wrong with milk quality.

My first DS dropped 3 centiles and didnt gain for weeks, despite various bf experts checking my latch and declaring it fine. He only gained minimally when I woke him for extra night feeds, practiced breast compressions and tried to increase length of feeds. In the end, even a bf expert from my local hospitals infant feeding team exhausted all her advice and said "oh well you got to 6 months which is more than most people do". I swear they thought I was lying about how much I was feeding him but honestly I had given it my all.

[MrsCaptainReynolds]

YouMaySay I have the same problem. Fully committed to breast feeding with both DSs. Good latch, feeding all the time, on demand. But both just about held on weight wise, frequently "dropping off" despite being good sized babies at birth. Then at 6 months, when we introduced solids, they flourished.

I think my milk is rubbish. I know all the literature says this can't be so, but why not? It's a hormonally driven excretion. We wouldn't be offended if we were told any other bodily secretion was inadequate; we'd just do what we needed, medically, to remedy the situation.

When I express milk it is extremely watery. I can express and express for ages before it becomes creamy. If I put it in the fridge, where the cold should make the fat separate and float, I can see there is barely any fat in it at all.

With second DS, having worked this out a little with DS1, I tried block feeding (on the advice of LLL), which basically means feeding on the same side exclusively for long periods. The idea being that baby will get to the creamy fattier milk eventually. I would feed for about 6 hours in one side before changing. It did help, I got to 6 months eBF with him compared with 4 months with his older brother and his growth chart was better.

[Crazyqueenofthecatladies]

Please don't worry about malnourishment or depriving your dc of nutrients. My dd was born three months prem weighing in at a hefty 1040g and promptly dropping to 865g - she looked utterly emaciated you could see her skull - now that IS scary. Term babies, especially the fatties like my 9lb 6oz son have the fat and mineral reserves to ride out a rough journey to weaning. Really they'll be grand.

[squizita]

Wallaby my dad's side of the family are all rather short but famously born huge (bloody terrifying when I was pregnant lol) so YY birth weight doesn't mean life size!

[squizita]

Diet does not affect the fattiness of milk btw.

[paxtecum]

Drinking fennel tea will dramatically increase your milk supply.
Drink several mugs of it through the day and make it strong, ie leave the tea bag in.

It is available in most supermarkets and health shops.
Avoid anything with sage in.

[squizita]

Also I found the adult height chart in the red book a comfort. DD was born 25th and is now close to 2nd. I am the same place in adult height! So maybe it is just dna.

[squizita]

Some babies just have crazy metabolism I reckon.

I thought my slow gainer was my fault till she started on solids ... and it was the same old story. She's a very active baby, I can now see her eating full fat milk and porridge etc as well as my milk ... but she's still wee!

Mind you she is very normal development wise, you'd think she'd read the book! So I'm reassured her bones and brain work fine.

[wallaby73]

The thing is, in years to come, you (and they) won't even remember this!

I think you need to put those charts away and try to enjoy more, analyse less.

[LittleBearPad]

Do try to step back and look at your children not at their stats.

Are they happy, perky, alert, active?

Weight is only one factor, they aren't necessarily meant to follow centiles religiously.

I was completely thrown by my ebf son being weighed at three months. He'd fallen from the 50th centile to the 9th/25th. He was weighed two weeks later and was tracking the new centile. Hv was happy - if was the last time he was weighed - now 28 weeks. He was alert, happy at 3 months but I had two weeks worry that he wasn't gaining enough; he was just settling down.

[Monstersaurus]

Both of mine have had faltering weight, DS2 was far worse (fallen from 91st to second centile) but he has severe reflux. We excluded CMPI (and I cut out soya as well as dairy as there are a lot of babies who are intolerant to both) It is so frustrating, especially when you put so much effort into feeding them then you watch the scales barely change from weigh-in to weigh-in. He's now following the centile line, after mixed feeding and getting his medication right. DS1 was EBF and came back up to the 50th centile by the time he turned 2. We weaned DS2 at about 20 weeks (on advice of paeds) and that does seem to have helped. I asked my HV about increasing my calorie intake to 'improve' my breast milk, but she told me that there is no evidence that it helps.

Paeds did suggest that DS2 could be catching down to his natural weight but that it was too big a drop to explain away his cruise across the centile lines. He's very long so is quite the bean pole. Is your wee one in proportion if you look at weight and length together?

[YouMaySayImADreamer]

Thanks all appreciate the advice and experiences.

I do think into things a lot and am a bit of a perfectionist...I suppose what I am most worried about is that they have a lot of development going on in this first year and I dont want to unwittingly deprive them of calories they need to do this and damage them.

[blueBooby]

I'm an anxious person by nature but it does sound to me that you're worrying too much about this. I know you said the health visitor as agrees but there have been lots of threads on here in the past where health visitors have worried mumsnetters unnecessarily because their babies haven't followed an exact line of growth. As pp mentioned, an average must include babies who are higher and those who are lower than the average line.

I think as a general rule, as long as your baby is still gaining weight (which he is, just not as much as you'd like) and still producing wet nappies, then there isn't a problem.

Your first DS was ebf for 6 months and you haven't mentioned that he was malnourished or suffered any ill effects. Now your second DS sounds as though he is coming along well and actually gaining more weight than his older brother - who you know was and is healthy despite being a lower weight as a baby.

I think if you want to start spacing out his feeds more for your own benefit, 5 months old is old enough to start doing so. Otherwise I really would try not to worry so much.

[wallaby73]

Another way of looking at it, instead of analyzing "why" you had a big baby.....maybe just cos?! I have no idea why mine were, no diabetes involved. They just.....were!! I know someone who was 11lbs at birth - very ordinary sized man now.

[Abraid2]

My daughter was a chubby little newborn. 8lb 13oz on a short frame. She looked like a big red tomato. She didn't put on much weight in the first few months but was happy and very alert. We just came to the conclusion that she had done very, very well in the womb and body was primed to burn off some of the weight. She fed well and the health visitor kept an eye on us.

[wallaby73]

I reLly think you can't see the wood for the trees, and i do mean this kindly, but it sounds like you have got a little fixated and are giving yourself and your abilities a hard time. Just because you had a big baby (as did i) does not therefore mean they are "genetically" bound to be huge......it just doesn't follow. Seriously, i would consider just weighing every couple of months - and if that prospect sends your anxiety up, there's your answer. Stop over reading, you are fuelling your anxiety.....your children are not, i repeat not, going to waste away to scraps of nothing. They will simply take what they need, and end up roughly like you or your dh.

[YouMaySayImADreamer]

Because my partner is tall and comes from a tall family sanfairy. I suppose we never know what is in our genetics either do we? I don't think big is better and have never said that...I just worry that they should maintain the size they are supposed to be.

I think weaning is bad advice to be honest, but I think it might have been because she knew I didn't want to top up with formula as it can be conducive to premature end to bf