Week old baby still losing weight, should I top up with FF?

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Ds is on day 9, has lost about 10% since birth and had a further small loss in the past two days.

I'm worried I'm not producing enough milk (he's BF only).

I BF'd my other dcs with no issues. Is it possible that my supply is worse than before?

I'm feeling pretty useless. All my notes have gone from "experienced mother, confident feeder" to long lists of what I should be doing better. It shouldn't bother me, but with hormones thrown in it's getting me down.

I want to BF, but more importantly I want my baby to thrive.

Has mix-feeding worked for anyone? Can I make it work or should I resign myself to it being a step towards FF?

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Beebs, give the breastfeeding support people linked upthread a call. How long was the 1oz gain made in? Are you normally having the usual number of wet and dirty nappies? Is dd more wakeful by the day, or more sleepy?

If I'd gone by my instincts, I knew ds was getting more wakeful, I knew he was filling enough nappies, and he seemed to be heading in the right direction.

Just remember a couple of bottles now doesn't mean you won't be exclusively BFing next week :)

Hopefully dd will suddenly shoot ahead as she gets into the swing of things.

[Beebs15]

Thank you so much for having this discussion. I have learnt more from thus thread than my numerous deadens conversation with MW.

I got my 3 week daughter weighed yesterday and she only gained 1oz, the MW instantly told me to give her the bottle because she is I the lower 10 percentile and is 'failing to thrive'

I almost broke down into tears and I have been so worried, I feel like I'm not giving her enough, despite her being on my breast for hours at a time.

I did give her a bottle yesterday but she has been bloated, sick and hasn't pooed since. I just need to keep going with the bf.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Thank you both :o

It's awful when it feels like everything's going tits up (pun intended).

In all honesty if we'd just gone by ds's behaviour and not his weight, there never would have been a worry. But better safe than sorry I guess.

[Imeg]

It's such a good feeling when it starts going well isn't it? Really pleased for you :)

[ithoughtofitfirst]

Yay!!

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Thank you so much for all the support and brilliant advice.

Just to update. We're now a month in and in the past week ds has put on a whole pound. HV is completely happy that he is absolutely fine and doing brilliantly, and BF is now fully established :)

Knowing the foremilk/hindmilk isn't right, really helped.

We're clearly doing something right anyway. Ds is a lot more alert during feeds (but that's more than likely due to being older)

Thanks again

[MissRatty]

My LO also was swallowing a lot and falling asleep on the breast, and it was due to reflux (silent type with no spew) caused by cow's milk protein intolerance. This meant he continually lost weight and it was very stressful. There are lots of things that can cause issues, so whilst you can by all means top up with formula, if you want to continue to BF then you can ask someone else to give the top up whilst you express, and get all the help you can with breastfeeding if you want to continue with it. My LO also had a significant tongue tie. All of these issues weren't diagnosed until he was a year old, as we were pretty much ignored until we paid to see a private consultant and demanded referrals via the NHS. It is stressful, but get every bit of help you need, as having a baby is stressful enough without getting the support you need x

[showtunesgirl]

All hail the mighty tiktok!

Think I'll be back here soon. Thanks to tiktok she got me and DD off to a great start and she only recently self-weaned a just over 3yo.

[purplefeathers]

Thanks for the advice and links on this thread. My mw was talking to me about the importance of hind milk recently. She advised to put baby back on the same breast a few times before switching to ensure he gets enough of the magical hind milk. I can see from the links that that's not necessarily correct though.

All the talk of 'foremilk' and 'hindmilk' does make it sound as though there are two distinct kinds of milk. Our breasts may be clever but they're not clever!

[MrsNutella]

That was the agreement I had with my DH Squiz. Everyone is happy. Baby gets to smile at nice daddy taking the nappy off. You get to smile at daddy and baby and not deal with poo. Daddy is happy - and if he isn't he should be!

[Micah]

Oh and tell your rellies that of course dh can help at night. He can change nappy, cuddle dc back to sleep, help you up, get you a drink and a snack, generally keep you company.

Presumably his paternity leave ends at some point when he wont be wanting to help so much. Which leaves you with 6 months of getting up and making bottles rather than a 10 min bf and all back to sleep..

[Micah]

Weight loss in the first days is normal. As is not regaining birthweight for a week or two.

Frequent weighing adds to anxiety- you're dealing with such tiny amounts that different scales, or scales that are calibrated differently, or simply a big wee right before weighing make it look like a loss when it isn't.

The easiest way to avoid all these problems is to ditch the scales and go by eye. Would anybody have been so worried if you weren't focussing on the numbers? Were they weeing, pooing, crying, sleeping, behaving appropriately? Is birth jaundice improving, even slowly? All this can tell you really whether breastfeeding is going well.

My hv strongly discouraged weighing unless there were also clinical signs. Best thing I ever did!

[squizita]

DH can help at night with what comes out the other end.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

That's great Cheshire :) it's a good news day.

Thanks tiktok and MrsN. Now I've just got to brace myself for a visit from family who will tell me I shouldn't BF. It's for the nicest reasons (because dh can't help at night) but is not what I need to hear right now!

[cheshirem2b]

MW came out to my little girl again today and she's put on 30g since yesterday! She was happy with her but we've been referred to the lactation consultant to check bf is going ok. In the meantime I'm advised to switch feed and express to top up daily. Got a weigh in ya hospital on Saturday then at home on Monday.

[MrsNutella]

That's super!

I'm going to put money on him being giant in a month

[tiktok]

Yay :)

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Thanks everyone :) we have a result!

Ds has put on 3 1/2 oz in two days :)

HV is very happy with his progress and has no concerns. She's said to keep doing what I'm doing.

I feel a lot happier swapping when he signals, and the link that had the details of gradual change in milk through a feed (thanks Tiktok) made a lot of sense. If he carries on this way he'll be back up to birthweight by 14 days just as he should be :)

[Schweetheart]

Op, skin to skin worked for a friend of mine. She was also told to rest completely (ie stay in bed naked with baby) for a few days and feed every 2 hours to stimulate supply. Easier said than done with other dc around but that seemed to be the best advice I'd ever come across.

Other friends (4 that I can think of) who we're finding feeding tough and whose babies were losing weight were advised to do formula top ups and this was the kiss of death for their supply. I should add that these were also the ones rushing around, trying to get back to "normal", having LOADS of visitors etc etc.

Hunker down with your squidgy new one as much as poss and relax and eat cake too.

Best of luck with the weigh in today!

[Greenstone]

Agree with Imeg - there was that 'lag time' for us with a further small weight loss after really good feeding - so disappointing. We got referred to A&E for a full check and bloods etc and even by then when they weighed her a few hours later there was a small increase again and we got the all clear.

[Imeg]

With mine there was a lag time between the feeds improving and his weight going up (though once he was back at birth weight he always gained, just slower than they wanted) so don't be too disappointed if his weight isn't what you might hope as I suspect it's a bit soon from last night to this morning to make a difference.
.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Thanks Imeg :) funnily enough I've been doing breast compressions myself without knowing that's what I was doing.

I think we may have turned a corner, we had some good, awake, cluster feeding overnight, and he seems a lot more engaged with feeding.

We shall find out if his weight is heading in the right direction or not this morning. Fingers crossed.

MrsN, I have no idea! If it had been a straightforward, " he's lost nearly 10% which is on the high side of normal, so we'll just keep a closer eye to make sure he doesn't go over that and keep an eye out for increased drowsiness etc" then I would have had the info but no reason to worry. I know it must be nigh on impossible getting the balance right with hormones thrown in, but still!

[Imeg]

I had what sounds like similar weight issues with mine, and he did have some formula in the early weeks and I'm still breastfeeding at 10 months. What worked for me to sort out the breastfeeding was listening for swallowing and then doing whatever it took to make sure he kept swallowing for as long as possible rather than just sleepily sucking. Initially I used breast compressions and switching sides, once he got the hang of it a bit more then I could often just tickle him or move him a bit to wake him up slightly.
Breast compressions as described below worked really well for me to get more milk in per feed:

www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8:breast-compression&catid=5:information&Itemid=17

I do think either more training of HCPs, or perhaps more realistically in view of all their other responsibilities, HCPs erring on the side of directing to other sources of help might be a good idea. It took me ages to realise that feeding wasn't going well because I didn't have any pain (with hindsight this was probably because baby wasn't sucking hard enough) and everyone said the latch was fine. Also the breastfeeding lady in antenatal class was so insistent about leaving them on the first side until they came off by themselves 'even if they look like they're asleep' that I ended up keeping the baby on the same side for ages even though he wasn't getting any milk... Once I started listening for the swallows and switching sides when he stopped we got on much better...

[MrsNutella]

Poke the chocolate into your porridge. Good melty chocolate and sprinkle some cocoa powder on too.

[MrsNutella]

Why do they do that?! Crazy people! Both DS and DD have long heads that are a lovely shape and round at the back but it means they laid their heads on the side. With DD the Dr pointed it out ... Then said "nothing to worry about"
Also, here, we get quite easy access to paediatricians and even when DS had lost his 10% and DD didn't seem to be gaining they were cool and the MWs were the ones causing the stress.

Relax, you know what you're doing
Enjoy having a teeny tiny baby who doesn't weigh 8 kilos and still want to be carried everywhere the same week you have a sick toddler