Boob job, domperidone, baby not gaining...help please :-(

[AngryBeaver]

10 years ago I had a boob job.
With every child I've had there has been fb anxieties and I've ended up topping up and then giving up.
My 4 th child is 2 weeks old.
I thought I would eliminate any worries by asking my midwife for do peri done (had googled it and thought it sounded the a water to my worries) she did, I took it and my supply was great.
Baby gained 120g in two days. And all her birth weight back.

(There was no evidence that there was anything wrong with my supply before this, but it just felt that there must be)

Anyway, in a nutshell, it gave. Me stomach cramps and stinky farts!
It also seemed to give the baby the same trouble. She screamed in the night and only settled when she'd released wind.

I asked the midwife if I could just stop and she said I could.

The day after I chucked them, I got mastitis.

I have started taking fenugreek, not sure if it's made a differnce in supply.

The midwife weighed her and found she'd only put 40g on in. Nearly a week. She came back today (2 days later) and she'd put nothing on since then?!

I don't understand at all. She seems quite alert, and she wees and poos regularly (3 poos today)

Midwife and husband, and mother are all starting to suggest ff. I feel like they're closing in on me!

I'm really stressed by this. Of I have to ff feed her, I will feel such a fucking failure.
I really wanted it to work this time. I love feeding her :(
Help?

[AngryBeaver]

Thanks

I was told to give her 50/60 ml, so about 1.5 oz of formula.
She guzzled it down, but then spent most of the evening screaming.
I expressed 1.5 oz, and then offered her a feed from the breast. She seemed frustrated and fussed and cried.
I wondered if my breasts were "empty" after expressing?

This am my dh gave her the expressed milk and again, she glugged it down. But no screaming this time.

[Hopefully]

Oh Angry how disappointing for you that she isn't gaining. Did you top up with the expressed milk?

I have ended up topping up all my DCs with 5-7oz a day (from 12 weeks with the first two, 6 weeks this time), and with both DC1 and 2 I was able to keep feeding - I had to really force myself to never offer more than that top up, so my supply was impacted as little as humanly possible - anecdotally, the people I know whose supplies have 'dried up' after introducing a bottle have had it happen because they've suddenly lost confidence in their bodies going through growth spurts and topped up more, or given in to the temptation for someone to do more night feeds etc. Just wanted to share that on case you're worried topping up on top of a low supply will mean the end of BF. I know one anecdote doesn't equal data etc etc

[Writerwannabe83]

How much have you been told to top your DD up with?

[AngryBeaver]

Just pumped for about half an hour, and got about 1.5 oz

[AngryBeaver]

She also told me she's seeing another woman who has just had her 3 rd child. She's never found a problem feeding the others, but now is so exhausted as it's a big leap from 2-3, that, st5 weeks she is struggling with it so much her baby isn't thriving.
Midwife said she's started giving him a bottle a day and he's like a different baby.

She also said to me "I know I'm a midwife and I'm not supposed. To say this, but you know, the real difference fb makes is to prem/sick babies. Full term healthy babies like yours, they need the colostrum and then, you know it really doesn't matter. Babies to very well on formula!"

I'm glad dh wasn't here, he would've harped on about how he's always said that( ad nauseum)

[AngryBeaver]

She says I need to try and express (haven't yet, but I bet it won't work) she ayes I need o feed on demand (I a,ready do) then top up either with expressed milk or formula or a mix of both at least nice a day until she puts a good amount on.

She's puzzled as her output is good, she's alert and she feeds a lot.

Midwife usually stays at least an hour sometimes more, having cups of tea and brownies :) so she sees her feeding and hears the gulping and then the empty sucking and then the sleeping.

She says that every time she sees me I look more exhausted and that maybe I just haven't got the energy to produce enough milk. She said the combination of 4 kids, no sleep and no help may just and too much for my body.
:(

[Writerwannabe83]

Oh no beaver - does she want you to give formula with every feed?

[AngryBeaver]

She's lost 80 g. Midwife brought round a pump for me, but says I need to give her 50/60 oz of formula tonight :(

[AngryBeaver]

And yes, hopefully, your day sounds like mine!
I'm sitting here feeding now in the hope of getting some weight on her before next weigh at 10am!

[AngryBeaver]

I think I'll give la leche a call. They meet once- a ponta near here.
Writer, The coffee group is a bunch of new(mainly first time) mums. We've only met a handful of times, so it's still a bit awkward. But yes, not the most sensitive comment in the world!

[Hopefully]

Angry when I read/talk to women whose babies have gained 1lb a week or whatever it makes me want to weep! It is so frustrating when I am happy to sacrifice sleep (hourly feeds many nights, 2 hourly on a good night, and staying awake to do compressions etc), bed space (co sleep for maximum boob access), free hands during the day (I feed while cooking dinner, doing the school run, painting pictures and reading books with older DC) and any free time at all (I cannot go out for half an hour as she doesn't generally go half an hour between feeds during the day), we STILL don't get decent weight gain.

[Writerwannabe83]

That doesn't sound like a very supportive Coffee Group

When I go to my breast feeding support group I look around at the other women who are feeding and think to myself, how come they make it look so easy? I've decided that BF comes naturally to some but not for others and I think I'm in the latter. I took DS into work yesterday so my colleagues could meet him and when he needed feeding I hid myself away in the corner because I didn't want them to see how difficult I still find it to get the perfect attachment and latch.

[AngryBeaver]

Good to know (if you know what I mean!) that others go through the same difficulties.
It just looks so easy with all the other mums in my coffee group.
I mentioned that dd had only put on 20 g and one mum said "oh god reeeeally? That is nothing, my ds puts that on at every feed !!"
Hmmm, thanks for that.

It makes me want to go back on the domperidone, but the side effects are too bad , not just for me, but for dd too

I do think I have low supply.
The limping along comment hit a nerve. That's what it feels like :(

[Hopefully]

Angry I really feel for you, I have been exactly the same with 3 DC.

If you are doing absolutely everything you can (offering a feed at every squeak, even if it is hourly, breast compressions, switch feeding etc) and still not getting any/much weight gain, it may just be that you are one of that small percentage of women who have low supply. It's a really crap thing, especially when you know that 90% of people with 'low supply' don't have it, but are trying to feed to a schedule/don't understand cluster feeding/want a decent night's sleep, but there are a small percentage of women who are never going to make enough milk for their babies to thrive.

After 3 DC of exactly the same pattern of v v slow gain (one had minor TT, but the other two had perfect latch, I co slept, fed utterly on demand, switch fed, did compressions, took fenugreek etc etc) I have talked it through with more than one BFC and accepted that for whatever reason my supply is only ever enough to keep a baby limping on, rather than thriving.

No real helpful advice, just wanted to share that if there isn't enough milk there, all the willpower, determination and bloody mindedness (all of which I have in spades, and I'm sure you do too) won't make it happen, and you'll need to top up for your baby to thrive. Yes, we'll feel guilty as hell, but, and I speak from experience, it beats the guilt of the whole paediatrician referral/feeling you've been malnourishing your baby.

I hope that all comes across as supportive, rather than 'give up and give formula now', but I thought it might help to hear from someone who's been through the low supply mill.

[Writerwannabe83]

I can sympathise with every you have said angrybeaver - when I have been at my lowest points with BF it has been very hard for my husband to watch. I have been in absolute pieces, crying constantly, absolutely inconsolable (with exhaustion being a factor too) and it was upsetting for him to see. At one point he was worried about my emotional/mental state of mind because I was completely consumed with breast feeding and was convinced I was failing at it. DS is 8 weeks old and even a week ago, so not just the early days, I was crying my eyes out, telling him I couldn't do it anymore etc. I don't think I meant it at the time but it was all I could say. I then sought support from a BF Support Group and things are definitely back on track.

BF is something that is really important to me too and every time someone (usually my in-laws and my grandparents) that I should just give formula is crushed a little bit of my confidence, it's like they are saying I'm not good enough. I'm sure they don't mean it that way but when we are feeling so vulnerable and upset everything can seem like a criticism. I used to hate it when they suggested it (and they still do sometimes) and I just want to tell them to shut up and leave me alone. There's something in me that wants to prove to everyone that I can do this and that my baby is doing well. I don't think people understand how strong the urge is to want to breast feed and that want we want and need is encouragement and support through the rough times, not just tell to tell us to stop and give formula.

On a few occasions, always during the early hours of the night, I have been at breaking point and amidst my tears I have told DH to go and make up a bottle (we had formula in the house as a back-up) which he has done, but whenever he reappeared with the bottle I could never bring myself to give it. DS only ever had one bottle which is when he was in hospital because BF'ing wasn't going well and as I watched the midwife feed him my heart just broke - seeing someone else feed my baby just felt so wrong. Like you said, the urge we have inside us to want to feed our own baby can be very, very strong. I can't even put into words how or why it hurt me so much to see him being fed the midwife but I felt that somehow I'd lost him to someone else, I know that sounds ridiculous, but that's how it felt.

I'm very lucky that DH is 99% supportive and has been amazing during all my troubles - when I was cracking up in hospital following the birth and the breast feeding difficulties I was having he was absolutely amazing!! However, he has at times mentioned giving bottles but only because he couldn't bear to see me feeling so low, which I can understand.

I'm sorry this has been so long but I just want you to know that you aren't alone in your feelings x

[AngryBeaver]

Thanks writer.
Although I'drobably blub more if you hugged me!

Dh just hates seeing me beat myself up. He's not bothered how the baby is fed, as long as she's well and I'm happy.
It's like Groundhog Day for him, I suppose.

He just doesn't see the issue in saying "right, it's not working again, it's too hard for me mentally, we should just ff. baby gets fed, no stress " but he just doesn't/can't understand how important it is for me to do it myself.

She was doing so well at the end of week one.120g in 2 days? I'm thinking that it must have been the domperidone.

Bit of a coincidence that I stop taking them and then she stalls.

She's not looking chubby like she was. I just want her to thrive :(

[ForTheLoveOfSocks]

Could you try a supplementary nursing system? That way if baby needs a top up, they get it but all the while your breast is being stimulated.

I was also told by my lactation consultant I shouldn't just stop taking domperidone, as it could result in my supply dropping back down again. You should be weaned off it slowly.

If it helps I've just gone through a shit time myself. I was topping up with formula as I felt my DD wasn't getting enough. After a gruelling few weeks we are back off the formula and now she is bf again.

It sounds to me your midwife isn't very supportive. Is there any bf support/lactation consultants you can speak to?

[Writerwannabe83]

Oh I'm sorry to see you are feeling sad. Why does your DH want to give a bottle? Is it because he genuinely wants to help and thinks it will give you a break, or is it for his own selfish reasons? Your implies you aren't happy about it and nor should you be. What will stimulate your milk supply more than anything is your baby feeding from you and every time your baby is given a bottle it means an opportunity has passed to try and improve things. Breast pumps does not simulate a suckling baby and although they have their role in increasing milk supply it is not as efficient as actually breast feeding.

Expressing can be very disheartening for some if they aren't able to get much at first and if this is the case for you please don't think it is a reflection on your supply. There are many successful breast feeding mothers with thriving babies who are unable to express, it's just the way it is for some. Try a variety of pumps as you may find one that works better for you. I gave a Lasinoh manual pump and it's great. I started using it when DS was a few weeks old to relieve engorgement and found it to be really effective. By the time DS was 6 weeks I was able to get 4oz in about ten minutes.

I'm not going to say don't cry as your upset is completely understandable, I gave been in floods of tears myself over feeding and feeling like somehow I was failing my DS - breast feeding is a huge emotional pressure on a mother when we know the responsibility is on us to nourish our babies and I think a lot of self guilt comes into play. It's really horrible.

If I could give you a big hug, I would

[AngryBeaver]

Well, I'm sitting here with red puffy eyes.
She's just been weighed and she's only put on 20 g :( midwife says I need to get a breast pump and express after every feed.
I have a feeling this is going to make me feel worse as it's never worked well in the past!

Dh was working from home today and has heard everything.
He wants to do an evening bottle :(

[Newbie1050]

Hey from reading your post and the comments above, everyone is right do not be worrying! My baby was the exactly the same, she slept after only a few sucks of feeding and it was always so hard to wake her back up!my darling used me as a dummy sometimes so I completely understand what your on about, you have to remember even if she only a few times she is taking what she wants! My baby was a little jaundice when she was born which can cause the baby to sleep a lot too! And it's completely normal to be worried about their weight! But honestly don't fret, my midwife explained to me that a lot of babies normally lose weight before gaining it especially when breasted! It has nothing to do with your milk supply, I'm sure it's fine! If your baby is content and happy enough then you should be fine! If you are really stressed out maybe take her to a doctor and they might be able to give you more advice! However I think ever hour is extreme as we have to remember sleep is when the wee ones grow and develop so just take things at your babies pace, on demand! I hope everything works out for you and your doing brilliant on breast feeding and don't worry about expressing it takes me a near hour or more sometimes to get 3-4 oz!

[Writerwannabe83]

How did the weighing go?

[AngryBeaver]

I had heard that about pumping. Fortunately it's not imperative that I pump, although dh would like to feed her once in a while.

I'm up at the moment feeding her. She's fussing. We co sleep (dh on sofa bed!) which I love. But she does fuss a bit between 2-5 on/off the boob and on/off, crying.
Midwife wife is coming today at 12 (we're not in UK, different time zone) to weight her. I'm already anxious!
I'll be so stressed if she says there's no gain again.

I just don't know how that can be physically possible!

[BelleOfTheBoys]

Sorry one more!

Expressing is no indication of supply. I expressed with ds1 as I went back to work at 5mo (). I could pump a couple of bottles a day as I wasn't feeding him directly so I was getting engorged. This time I am feeding 8mo DS2 and have tried to express as going back to work soon. Haven't been able to pump more than 1oz. Ds2 is massive. Pumping and supply are not related.

[BelleOfTheBoys]

Sorry - bfing baby while I type and he pressed post!

I loved it when you said 'I love feeding her!' I bet she loves it too.

You're doing great. Keep going. Get her weighed in a week or two but don't be pressured into giving up something so lovely xx

[BelleOfTheBoys]

Sounds like a normal, bf baby to me :)

Both my DS hated being put down. A sling has been invaluable - I even bought a water one so I could shower with ds2! It's natural that they want to be close to you all the time - you smell milky and lovely to them and they like the closeness. I still feed Ds2 to sleep - he will go to sleep in the buggy but otherwise it's feed to sleep. Sometimes he has a loooooong feed, sometimes it's pop the nip in and 2 mins later he's asleep. It's all normal and fine.

You sound like you're doing great. I loved