NCT - hugely biased?

[clementine100]

My husband and I have been attending NCT classes in preparation for our first baby next month.

We have been really shocked at how biased NCT is towards 'natural' birth, despite loudly proclaiming at the start how unbiased they are. Pain management methods such as epidural and opiates are given as much air time as alternative methods like reflexology, homeopathy and doulas (!). And it seems to be 90% around doing breathing exercises (which are admittedly helpful) and answering little questions in groups, rather than actual guidance on labour and how to keep a baby alive after...

Has anyone else found this? Are there any good websites for new parents, in addition to the NHS website? I just don't think we're going to get all the info we need from NCT. (It doesn't help that our midwife is hugely into homeopathy as well...)

[slightlyglittermaned]

I went to both NHS and NCT. Fortunately the NCT tutor we had was clearly one of the good ones. Was pretty sensible, very careful not to be judgy.

The most useful bit was probably that a lot of partners couldn't attend the daytime NHS sessions, so the partners attending the NCT session got to hear all the detail about labour/birth itself, do the sessions discussing about how to handle workload after the birth, who gets up etc (lots of emphasis on dads being able to bond through getting up to do nightime nappy changes, do bathtime etc), as well as stuff like "this is what a febrile convulsion looks like and how to deal with it".

I had heard that some NCT tutors could be like that so was basically planning on just getting to meet some other parents out of it.

[AbiBrown]

Glad you also had a good experience with the hospital :)

[clementine100]

@AbiBrown yes absolutely agree with you on NHS! We went to the NHS session last week and found it so useful. They covered more in an hour than NCT did in ten, seriously. And really sensible, practical, midwife-led advice and guidance.

[AbiBrown]

I didn't bother with NCT because of how expensive it is, but heard many disappointed participants share the same grievances as you. For what it's worth, the NHS hospital antenatal classes were excellent, reassuring and informative. I think it's a real shame they're being cut and not funded properly and women are often left having to fork out for private alternatives sometimes run by people with agendas or untrained to deal with the real issues of childbirth.

[NewImprovedNinja]

Eastern medicine isn't supported by the NHS same as the UK is a Christian country but in reality, people of all religions and none reside there reasonably happily. There's plenty of evidence in countries like China and Japan that eastern 'medicine' works extremely well along with drug based intervention.
I practised hypnobirthing to help with my induction and it helped enormously. The NCT didn't cover how induction worked in any detail and it was up to me to research the process.
However, I think the real value in the NCT classes is in making friends with other couples going through roughly similar experiences rather than expecting it to cover all situations.

[TwittleBee]

But isn't it only fair and non-bias to explain all options?

[clementine100]

@TwittleBee of course medical intervention carries risks. That's clear. But let's also be clear on alternative remedies - homeopathy, reflexology, acupuncture etc. are NOT supported by any evidence, a point the NHS makes clear.

[TwittleBee]

Ah I see. There is evidence for it though. Perhaps this wasn't explained clear enough? We were given the pros and cons, all evidenced based, for all methods. There is clear evidence that shows medical intervention can cause further complications which is why it is recommended (not just by NCT but also our MWs at the NHS courses) to try and have as little medical intervention as possible.

[clementine100]

@TwittleBee it wasn't a typo. I guess I feel alternative methods not rooted in scientific evidence do not deserve as much coverage as evidence-based methods. So to give both equal airtime felt biased.

Absolutely agree with your comment on breastfeeding! Guidance went against what midwives have been saying. There was an insistence that 100% of women are able to breastfeed, it won't hurt, and if you don't do it you're a bad person and cry baby. That position that just borderline criminal.

[TwittleBee]

*BFFs

[TwittleBee]

Was there a typo in your OP?
"Pain management methods such as epidural and opiates are given as much air time as alternative methods like reflexology, homeopathy and doulas "
If not then giving air time equally across all forms of birth assistance is being unbiased?

I found our NCT class great, they really tailored it to our needs. She asked us at the start what we all wanted and what our expectations were and based it round what we wanted to learn.

We learned the pros and cons of all types of births and various ways you can assist your birth whether that be through medical pain relief or using hypnobirthing skills.

We also had a great few sessions on preparing for life with a baby. Our NCT class really emphasised how we need to stop focusing on birth when pregnant, as it is such a small moment, and look ahead at how we will change our lives to cope with a new born.

We had one session which was all about team work between the couple to ensure we both knew we could rely on each other and that both had to recognise what had to be done. E.g. if one person was feeding the baby then the other one could start dinner etc. This massively helped shift my OH (and other DHs in the group) into realising they need to do more round the house before babies were even born!

The only gripe I have with my course was the BFing session which I think grossly under prepared us. We were naively led into believing BFing is easy as its natural and anyone who says they cant do it is either a liar or selfish. Luckily I had witnessed the struggles my sister had so wasn't a total shock. Our whole group wished that the BF lady was more open and honest about the issues we would face. I guess she didn't want to scare us but instead she left us underprepared and as a result some of the women really beat themselves up for not finding it easy and natural.

Perhaps it depends on the course leader or the area. Worth writing to them though so they are made aware of any recommendations to improve the course you have though. I think they do a feedback form at the end actually if I remember correctly.

NCT was great though, I am now BBFs with the ladies in my group.

[Rainshowers]

I must have been lucky. One of the women in our group was booked for a csection already when the course started and the leader went through what we could expect if we had one (planned or otherwise) how many hospital staff would be in the room, what their roles would be etc. She showed us the needle they use for the epidural, covered the pros and cons of all pain relief from TENS machines to epidurals.The last class also covered some baby care-dressing them according to the temperature, illness, bathing them etc. It’s a shame the courses are so hit and miss given the course.

[clementine100]

Wow thank you everyone for sharing your experiences! We've got one session left and I still have so many questions. I think after the course ends I might write to NCT and give some constructive feedback.

I was hoping to 'buy' some mummy friends through NCT but quite a few of them are very pro-natural too. At least we have a whatsapp group so I can listen in on tips!

I find my midwife and her language very odd as well. She heavily promotes the midwife-led unit over the labour ward, and speaks of 'deserving' to go back to the MLU after giving birth at the labour ward, if you 'really tried' to do it without pain relief. Wtf? (The MLU is a lot nicer than the labour ward here, which is itself deliberate I feel.)

[Bobbiepin]

Wow I'm so sad you've all had such negative experiences. The leader at our course was wonderful, totally listened to what we wanted and responded to that. We didn't talk about any alternative therapies and she spent dedicated time on how induction works, who is in the room for a c section and what their jobs are and every type of pain relief and their pros and cons. The woman who did the breastfeeding bit wasn't as balanced (we asked for information about ff but found we "didn't have time"). I went to an NHS bf course too and found it was much more pushy on breast is best.

[MauriceTheSpaceCowboy]

It’s a lottery as the individual teachers vary so much in what they cover. I found ours useless tbh.

[ivehadtonamechangeforthis]

Oh yeah I'd forgoteten I had also planned to have a water birth :) that went out the window too!

[StealthPolarBear]

Lol at keeping a baby alive, I know exactly what you mean

Are there any good websites for new parents, in addition to the NHS website
You're on it :)

[Luckingfovely]

Yes. They are vile and led to me having great sadness over my sections. I would have them banned if I could. Bastards.

[Frogletmamma]

NCT gave me a completely wrong view of how my birth would be. I expected whale music and water birth and got emergency caesarian... wish I hadn't bothered

[ivehadtonamechangeforthis]

Oh yes! I enjoyed my NCT classes because I was so naive :) My NCT leader really promoted our 'rights' to say no to induction, to 'listen to and be led by our bodies' etc etc and to take plenty of blankets and pictures to decorate our delivery room so it didn't feel like a hospital..... She really heavily promoted breastfeeding, spent a lot of time on the how to and benefits of it etc etc...said NOTHING about formula feeding, didn't even mention it as an alternative!

So there I was blankets and iPad with my playlist at the ready.....then my waters broke at home and contractions started, then they stopped, then they started, then they stopped, then I ended up in hospital being given the choice of either induction or c-section because waters had broken 36 hours earlier and only 2cms dilated. Blankets, iPad, 'rights' to say no all went out the window. :)

NCT tends to be very idealistic :)

[GoodMorningSunshine]

thedaisyfoundation.com/daisy-parent/

A great Antenatal/practical babycare workshop

Also on their website they have a great section on pregnancy and birth. It's called inform my choice.

//www.thedaisyfoundation.com

[FoxtrotSkarloey]

I'm pregnant and one of the last of my friends to have children so I've been doing a lot of question asking of them! Spread across five parts of England they've all done NCT and had a huge variation on what they've been told. As I understand it, NCT are trying to be more balanced and move away from being the 'anything but natural birthing and breast feeding is a sin brigade' BUT they are only as good as the local course leaders who seemingly can still choose to spout whatever they want! I find that amazing.

It could be worth dropping a line to a central office as if they don't get feedback they'll never know.

I'm going to do the classes, but my expectations are low, however as a newbie to the area I live, as one of my friends described it 'it's a great way to buy friends'! Let's hope so!

[RidingMyBike]

A decent book is great preparation - I didn't do NCT because I didn't want a load of natural birth stuff shoved down my throat plus it seemed so expensive. Did the NHS antenatal classes instead which were fine apart from the BFing one which was heavy on propaganda and light on actual useful information (and included some falsehoods!).

The books I found useful were:
Lesley Regan - pregnancy week by week and birth which talked through all the possible things that could happen and pros and cons.
Clare Byam Smith What to expect when BFing - practical, down to earth, realistic and sensible.

[seafoodeatit]

YANBU but I thought it was well known that the nct stance is towards natural birth, I think it's good they promote a more natural birth. It's important to remember their view is just that, a view. My labours have always been too fast for pain relief and I feel too ill with gas and air. It's important to teach parents to be about birthing experiences and to be open to many options, I was so set on pain relief that I had such panic with my first when I didn't get any, it didn't even cross my mind that I might not.

I didn't do the NCT classes but my NHS ones sound like the one you went to, they also scoffed at the idea of struggling with bf and said combi feeding is not going to work and to do it properly or not all.