How do you or what do you......?????

[GenT]

One of our friends lost their baby just before Christmas. Through a scan they learnt the baby had no heartbeat. Surely no one was prepared for this as everyone thought all was going well.

On Christmas day via a C-section we learnt the baby was a little girl. We haven't learnt as yet why the baby died. The mum is really down as anyone would expect and our hearts are with them.

We have a beautiful little girl who charms everyone and we were both looking forward to seeing this new baby and for them to be playmates. Most of our items were going to be passed to her as it is ridiculous having to buy items that can be used again especially if they are in good condition.

We haven't seen the couple as yet to personally share our feelings. But when we do, it is like what do you say. It is a sad situation overall and they don't have a child while we do ours. How does one deal with this situation, what does one say? You don't want to say a lot nor say a little, as one might think you don't care, when it is the total opposite.

I do believe for them to get on in life, they will have to grieve and I think with the baby being only 3 months away from birth, it would be better to give her a name and not call it baby. They hadn't chosen any names as yet. I never found a name for mine until the last month so I can understand that.

Has anyone been in this situation and how did you handle it? What can we do to help? Any ideas and thoughts welcome.

My prayers and thoughts go out to those who have lost children.

[Northerner]

Hi GenT. So sorry to hear of your friends loss. I do not have any experience of this so can not really offer advice, other than you sound like a wonderful friend to have and it sounds like you are willing to offer support however it is needed. Just be there if they need you.

[bunny2]

The worst reaction I had was for a friend to completely ignore my miscarraige. Most people were kind and enquired about how I felt but one friend (someone I see regularly but am not particularly close to) never mentioned it. It was like my baby had never existed and I was offended and upset. So, acknowledging the baby and the lose of it is, IMO, absolutely the best thing that you can do. I was also hurt that after the intitial drama had subsided, most people expected me to carry on as normal. Noone asks how I am feeling now but I still cry (my miscarraige was in October), I did this morning. Of course one carries on but it seems everyone has forgotton about my baby except me.

You sound like a lovely friend, I am sure you will do the right thing.

[GenT]

Hugs for you bunny2. You have me crying.

Since my friend was having a girl and I would have given my little girls clothes to her as well, I think I will still give her a little baby grow. It is a tiny little one that I had embroidered the word "HIYA" on it and my little one wore it a lot when she was first born and met new people. It made strangers feel welcome to a new face I thought, since it is a Yorkshire greeting.

In the beginning, before we she told any of us about being pregnant, she was having a bit of problems and had her suspicions. But she never told anyone until she was certain. We regularly asked how she felt and was doing knowing and thinking she was on the road that all would be well, despite a low lying placenta and baby not in correct position.

Perhaps it is for the better that it happened if something was going to be abnormal with the child, but who are we to say. Someone of a higher power decided that and we can only accept it.

Until I can see her or them, I will set aside things that I think will make her feel better. She should feel better if we do acknowledge the baby we never got to meet.

I am all weepy now.

[elena2]

So sorry to hear about your friends' loss GenT, if it was me I would give my friend a huge hug and say I was so sorry, I would probably be in tears too.
From what I have read on other miscarriage/bereavement threads on Mumsnet, the most hurtful thing you can do is not to mention anything.
You sound like a really supportive friend, she is so lucky to have you.

Bunny2, you had me filling up too, I guess you already know there is lots of support for you on MN, it's sometimes easier to write how you're feeling down on here than say them to anyone in real life isn't it? If you ever want a chat, please e-mail me. Hugs ((((()))))
Love Elena xx

[Marina]

GenT, I'm so sorry for your friend's loss. As Bunny has so movingly put it, the worst reaction is when your friends or family try to pretend it never happened, or that your baby didn't exist. I've lost friends over this and I'm still quite bitter about it I'm afraid.
You sound like such a warm, caring friend. When you lose a baby late on, friends who care enough to shed tears with you are very precious.
My own experience matches your feeling that if her mum and dad can and want to, they should name their daughter and organise some kind of memorial for her, with the help of others if necessary.
We had help from friends who also lost babies when we organised our son Tom's funeral, and although it was a wrenchingly sad occasion I am still very glad we did it for him.
Your friend's due date and the anniversary of the day her daughter was born will always be difficult, even if she eventually has another baby. People who remember these days and show with a phone call or note that they are thinking of you are special friends. Last week Tom should have been one if he had not died in similar circumstances to your friend's baby. My family all forgot this anniversary - but a friend started a thread here on Mumsnet and the kind words on it made me feel my son will never be forgotten.
You could suggest to your friend, when she feels she wants to, that she contacts SANDS , the organisation that provides information and support for people who have lost a baby after 20 weeks. I found them very helpful.
I wish all my "real" friends had been as loving as you.

[Dmum]

I know this situation is a bit different than yours, GenT, but I thought I would share it with you and hope it helps. One of my closest friends had a stillborn baby 4 days after my ds was born. We had gone through our pregnancies together and my ds came early and she was a bit overdue. Everything went perfectly normally in the pregnancy until she went into labour. Everything was going fine, she was in very early stages of labour and went to sleep for a few hours. When she woke up, the MWF put the monitor on and there was no heartbeat. (I was upstairs in the post-delivery ward, but was unaware of what was going on). After lots of trying to find a heartbeat, a Consultant was sent for who confirmed the terrible news. She had to go through labour and delivery knowing her baby was dead. It turned out there had been compression on the cord - just an accident. Even as I type this, I have tears in my eyes thinking about this little boy that we never got to know..

IMO, the best thing you can do is just be there. Obviously, we had a new baby and their baby had died. I understand perfectly what you mean about the babies going to be playmates, as that's exactly what we had planned as well. It still breaks me heart to think about all the plans that will be unfulfilled. As Christians their faith helped them get through this terrible time. I've spent lots of time with my friend just talking about what happened. At Christmas time, she made up a special Christmas card in memory of her son and sent it out to everyone who had been involved. She just wants everyone to remember him and that's what I try to do. I ask her about him and how she's feeling, etc. She has been an amazing support to me, as we were having a really difficult time with my ds. In fact, they are my ds's godparents.

K (my friend) has and still is grieving, and as a couple, already really strong in their relationship, they feel it has made them even stronger. They have a tremendous sense of peace (perhaps their faith has helped with that?) and K has made lots of contacts over the internet with people who have gone through similar experiences. If your friend feels this would help her, let me know and I can find out the websites.


Sorry this is so long. To end really positively, They are pregnant again and due in March!! We're all really excited and looking forward to the birth of their 2nd son. But we know their DS1 will never be forgotten.

Like you, my thoughts and prayers go out to those who have lost children.

[Dmum]

I know this situation is a bit different than yours, GenT, but I thought I would share it with you and hope it helps. One of my closest friends had a stillborn baby 4 days after my ds was born. We had gone through our pregnancies together and my ds came early and hers was a bit overdue. Everything went perfectly normally in the pregnancy until she went into labour. Everything was going fine, she was in the very early stages of labour and went to sleep for a few hours. When she woke up, the MWF put the monitor on and there was no heartbeat. (I was upstairs in the post-delivery ward, but was unaware of what was going on). After lots of trying to find a heartbeat, a Consultant was sent for who confirmed the terrible news. She had to go through labour and delivery knowing her baby was dead. It turned out there had been compression on the cord - just an accident. Even as I type this, I have tears in my eyes thinking about this little boy that we never got to know..

IMO, the best thing you can do is just be there. Obviously, we had a new baby and their baby had died. I understand perfectly what you mean about the babies going to be playmates, as that's exactly what we had planned as well. It still breaks me heart to think about all the plans that will be unfulfilled. As Christians their faith helped them get through this terrible time. I've spent lots of time with my friend just talking about what happened. At Christmas time, she made up a special Christmas card in memory of her son and sent it out to everyone who had been involved. She just wants everyone to remember him and that's what I try to do. I ask her about him and how she's feeling, etc. She has been an amazing support to me, as we were having a really difficult time with my ds. In fact, they are my ds's godparents.

K (my friend)is, of course, still grieving, but as a couple, already really strong in their relationship, they feel it has made them even stronger. They have a tremendous sense of peace (perhaps their faith has helped with that?) and K has made lots of contacts over the internet with people who have gone through similar experiences. If your friend feels this would help her, let me know and I can find out the websites.


Sorry this is so long. To end really positively, they are pregnant again and due in March!! We're all really excited and looking forward to the birth of their ds2. But we know their DS1 will never be forgotten.

Like you, my thoughts and prayers go out to those who have lost children.

[Dmum]

Sorry, posted that twice. Don't know what happened.

[GenT]

Thank you very much for your support. I will pass on the website and any information you could give me.
I wrote her a short letter telling her I hope they named the baby and to light a candle sharing the time together remembering their baby. I gave her a little dress I had made for mine and a baby grow with "baby girl" imprinted on it. They are hers anyway. Told her to put it aside with her scan and it will be there whenever she remembers baby. Only with time will they heal and give me a can whenever she wants.

I will remember next year to give a card or do something special for the little angel. Thanks for your suggestions.

I don't want to seem crude, but since an autopsy or something of the like was done on the baby as they didn't know why it died, what would have been done with the baby? Would she have been given a funeral or something of the sort?

[Dmum]

I'm sure all the things you're going to do will certainly help your friend through her tragic loss. She's really blessed to have a friend who is so supportive and caring.

After my friend's ds's autopsy, they had a funeral for him - a cremation for the very close family and a memorial service for friends and family. I know your friend's situation was a bit different as the baby wasn't full-term, but perhaps the hospital could tell you exactly what happened.

On the baby's birthday in April, I'm planning to give them a pot planted up with evergreens and forget-me-nots in memory of the baby.(Hope these go together - don't know very much about gardening!) Hopefully, they can tend it and replant flowers every year on his birthday. In time, I'm sure they'll get ds2 to help with this too.

I found that I felt very guilty about having my baby and someone described this as "survivor's guilt" - the same as people who survive accidents where others have died. Don't know if you're feeling this, but I found it really helpful to tell my friend about it and just cry through it together.

One of the websites which K found really helpful was www.hannah.org. This is a web site for parents who have lost children through miscarriage, stillbirth or cot death. I'll be seeing my friend in a few weeks (she's away visiting her family abroad at the moment) and I can get the addresses of other sites for your friend.

Thinking of you all at this time.

[GenT]

Marina, I found the site SANDS beautiful and supportive in a heart-wrenching kind of way. It is sad but still a positive point that such grief must occur but someone did something beautiful from it which helps other.

I will check out the out sit Dmum. Any information can never be too much information.

I don't know if it is survivor's guilt. What I do know is more than 3 of her friends were having babies too, probably a bit earlier than her. None were willing to share things as outgrown items , baby bath for example. They are closer than myself to her. They might have survivor's guilt and have fear of contact. To make it easier you do need your family and friends I believe.

[Marina]

GenT, the baby may have had a funeral arranged by her mum and dad, or they may have preferred to let the hospital arrange it. The chaplain at my hospital ensures (with the hospital's full support, of course) that babies whose parents could not face organising a funeral, are given a simple, dignified farewell and their ashes are buried in a cemetery (in the children's corner in our local case).
Glad you found the SANDS site helpful. Remember they are there to help everyone affected by the loss of a baby and that includes family friends. Take care.

[aloha]

I met a woman this had happened to at 26months and just said, "I'm so sorry your baby died' and they told me it was exactly the right thing to say. They did want acknowledgment that they'd a/had a baby and b/that it had died. They personally hated phrases like 'lost the baby' or 'had a miscarriage'. She also said that the very worst thing was not to mention it at all, as that made her feel as if they didn't think her experience and her baby were important.
I learned a lot about this subject from Mumsnet.

[juicypips]

GenT,be there for your friend as you are, cry with her, and cuddle her, and talk if she wants to talk about about this terrible,terrible loss.
A while back i worked for a lady who i became very close to, (im a nanny) she was 9 months pg due any time, but two days after her due date she couldnt feel the babys kicks so went into hospital for a scan and thats when she got the most dreadful news that there was no heartbeat and the baby had died. She came home were i was waiting looking after her ds, and told me the news, il never forget that moment,for the rest of my life, my instant reaction was to throw my arms around her she cried and cried and so did i. Her baby was a little girl as she always had thought it was, she had to go into hospital that evening to go through labour. Soon after, the funeral arrangements were made for the baby, she was cremated. As the weeks passed we talked about her baby, i never avoided the subject, we were quite open and close anyway so that helped. Then a few months later she fell pregnant and went on to have a healthy ds. Just continue to be a great friend,GentT, thats all you can do. My heart so goes out to your dear friend.

[juicypips]

Bunny2, are you ok? i had my misscarriage in october too, and like you i had a liitle cry to myself this morning. People dont really mention my m/c to me either i think people feel like they dont want to bring it up, but i feel better when i talk about it. Sometimes close ones ask my dh how i am but i would so rather they ask me. So i know what you mean. xxx

[bunny2]

Hi Juicypips, good to hear from you. I'm ok, thanks for asking.

Isnt it a pity that miscarriages and stillbirths are a taboo subject? People skirting around the subject or ignoring it make me feel (wrongly) that it is something to be ashamed about.

There are some heartbreaking stories on this thread.